Cyprus-Forum.com

[GreekIslandGirl]

There is no doubt the mainland Greeks are highly intelligent people.

How did you arrive at that conclusion?

Nobody has emerged from the entire Balkans (let alone Greece) in the last 100-200 years with a worthwhile discovery or anything that could be even remotely called “genius”!



It’s like we live in two different planets Pyro…

If you are looking for names read previous posts. Who invented the Pap test?

Sorry Pyro but the Pap test might be ok but when a country has a Space Program and is building things like the 787 Dreamliner, then I think Greece is way out of its depth!

The differences between Greece and countries like the USA is stark - like night and day.

Firstly, the Anglo Saxons/Germans/Irish have a different character to what we see in Southern Europe. They don't rock the boat for starters, work as a united team, and when the shit hits the fan they roll up their sleeves.

You just have to look at all the innovation, important discoveries coming from these countries, inventions, technology etc. there is a reason why they are at the top and why the Germans nearly took over the world some 70 years ago.

I was not comparing countries per se. How could I compare Greece of 10 million to the USA of 250 million??
I was comparing people.
The Greeks do excel outside of Greece and they usually climb well above average even to the top compared to the locals. I won't be surprised if Greeks have top positions in Nasa as well.

But, of course, out of the 27 worldwide Personnel in the Stereo-Waves Team, 2 are from Athens:

Prof. X. Moussas Univ. of Athens (Greece) Co-I, liaison with ARTEMIS
Dr. C. Caroubalos University of Athens (Greece) Co-I Emeritus, liaison with ARTEMIS French-Greek spectrograph

[Pyrpolizer]

But, of course, out of the 27 worldwide Personnel in the Stereo-Waves Team, 2 are from Athens:

Prof. X. Moussas Univ. of Athens (Greece) Co-I, liaison with ARTEMIS
Dr. C. Caroubalos University of Athens (Greece) Co-I Emeritus, liaison with ARTEMIS French-Greek spectrograph

So why do you think the Greeks excel outside of Greece GIG, whereas they do so bad in their own country?
Have they been trapped in a bad political system?
Do they have bad habits while living in Greece, which by some magic they get rid of when they go abroad?
Are they they know it all guys who refuse to learn anything new, or can't do team work?
Is it because Greece as a place is so bad that they can't even have a decent living and prosper as a nation?
Or is it because the ratio between dumb and clever among them is not what it should be? (my theory)

NB. A relevant joke:
Lordo meets a mainland Greek.
What's the matter with you boys, he says, you are 10 million clever guys, how come you find one stupid among you, and make him your leader?
Look at us, we are 60 million dumb guys, we find one smart guy among us, and make him our leader.

[repulsewarrior]

...more than any European country, I have said it before, even before this crisis, Greece exports its educated young; of course they excel, those chosen wherever they go.

I am still looking forward to seeing what this man, Tsipras, can do. In his "ineptitude", he has/is proving that he is not one of "them". and that is what is needed, new thinking.

The issue of onerous debt will not go away so long as Germany insists that it be paid. If it is not defined this time around, next time, things will be different. Like any game of confidence, the reckoning is only near.

[Paphitis]

There is no doubt the mainland Greeks are highly intelligent people.

How did you arrive at that conclusion?

Nobody has emerged from the entire Balkans (let alone Greece) in the last 100-200 years with a worthwhile discovery or anything that could be even remotely called “genius”!



It’s like we live in two different planets Pyro…

If you are looking for names read previous posts. Who invented the Pap test?

Sorry Pyro but the Pap test might be ok but when a country has a Space Program and is building things like the 787 Dreamliner, then I think Greece is way out of its depth!

The differences between Greece and countries like the USA is stark - like night and day.

Firstly, the Anglo Saxons/Germans/Irish have a different character to what we see in Southern Europe. They don't rock the boat for starters, work as a united team, and when the shit hits the fan they roll up their sleeves.

You just have to look at all the innovation, important discoveries coming from these countries, inventions, technology etc. there is a reason why they are at the top and why the Germans nearly took over the world some 70 years ago.

I was not comparing countries per se. How could I compare Greece of 10 million to the USA of 250 million??
I was comparing people.
The Greeks do excel outside of Greece and they usually climb well above average even to the top compared to the locals. I won't be surprised if Greeks have top positions in Nasa as well.

Yes Greeks have excelled outside of Greece. There is no doubt about it.

I know there are some Greeks occupying predominant positions in NASA but not only. There are Greeks in Boeing, Lochheed Martin, on Wall Street, on boards you name it. They are everywhere, even in politics in the USA and Australia and some are top level advisors to the biggest office holders and most powerful people in those countries.

There has been a clear and distinct difference in the output of the Diaspora than those in Greece. The reasons may be many but I think if you give Greeks some structure, and opportunity they should excel (that's my theory anyway). But they certainly are NOT smarter than the Americans or other Nations. Americans are predominately Anglo Saxon, Germanic, Irish and Jewish. This is a volatile blend there of people's that actually do have the smarts, worth ethic, ability to innovate and cohesiveness (the things we need to aspire to because we fall very short).

The Diaspora has been very hard working. They had no choice when they migrated to a foreign country with one suitcase to their name.

[Robin Hood]

I am one who believes without reservation that it is the banking and financial systems that are behind the woes in Greece. The solution is so simple it is laughable and It seems that I am not alone in thinking that way. Why does it not happen then? Ignorance of the people in fact the large majority of people .........

Greece – Rescue Without Debt - By Peter Koenig

It’s getting worse by the day. Not one euro of that money would flow into the Greek treasury, to revive its economy, to rebuild the social and medical programs of the country that were totally dismantled and looted by international banksters. In fact, this insane amount of money serves only to restructure Greece’s debt according to modalities and a time frame still to be worked out (“negotiated”) between the criminal troika thugs and Greece until about 20 August. The new € 86 billion – like the hundreds of billions before are transferred from the European Central Bank (sic) to too-big-to-fail commercial banks and are being reshuffled between them – all creating monster profits for the banks from usurious interest rates. Even though interest rates are kept secret, they must be hovering in the areas of 5% – 7%, for sheer fiat money created by a mouse-click that costs nothing to anybody. That interest is compounded increasing the debt exponentially.

In fact, the entire Greek debt could also be eclipsed by another mouse-click. And nobody would be hurt. To the contrary – Greece could suddenly breathe again and start afresh revamping her economy and social safety net. It would even help clean up the banksters’ dirty balance sheets. Of course, the banks don’t care about that. They only care about the insane interest they receive from fiat money. – Maybe that is why the IMF is suddenly advocating debt release for Greece?

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article42464.htm

[CBBB]

I am one who believes without reservation that it is the banking and financial systems that are behind the woes in Greece. The solution is so simple it is laughable and It seems that I am not alone in thinking that way. Why does it not happen then? Ignorance of the people in fact the large majority of people .........

Greece – Rescue Without Debt - By Peter Koenig

It’s getting worse by the day. Not one euro of that money would flow into the Greek treasury, to revive its economy, to rebuild the social and medical programs of the country that were totally dismantled and looted by international banksters. In fact, this insane amount of money serves only to restructure Greece’s debt according to modalities and a time frame still to be worked out (“negotiated”) between the criminal troika thugs and Greece until about 20 August. The new € 86 billion – like the hundreds of billions before are transferred from the European Central Bank (sic) to too-big-to-fail commercial banks and are being reshuffled between them – all creating monster profits for the banks from usurious interest rates. Even though interest rates are kept secret, they must be hovering in the areas of 5% – 7%, for sheer fiat money created by a mouse-click that costs nothing to anybody. That interest is compounded increasing the debt exponentially.

In fact, the entire Greek debt could also be eclipsed by another mouse-click. And nobody would be hurt. To the contrary – Greece could suddenly breathe again and start afresh revamping her economy and social safety net. It would even help clean up the banksters’ dirty balance sheets. Of course, the banks don’t care about that. They only care about the insane interest they receive from fiat money. – Maybe that is why the IMF is suddenly advocating debt release for Greece?

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article42464.htm

Yes, ProVox.

[miltiades]

I have always belived that Greece will remain in the EZ and that its future prosperity will be best served in the EZ and the EU rather than out.

Tough measures will hurt the people of Greece but I know them to be resilient and determined. For the good of the nation drastic changes must be implemented, corruption and nepotism has to be challenged, bureaucracy must be addressed if the economy is to recover.

Tsipras will in my opinion survive, I hope that his has what it takes to take the nation forward.

[GreekIslandGirl]

But, of course, out of the 27 worldwide Personnel in the Stereo-Waves Team, 2 are from Athens:

Prof. X. Moussas Univ. of Athens (Greece) Co-I, liaison with ARTEMIS
Dr. C. Caroubalos University of Athens (Greece) Co-I Emeritus, liaison with ARTEMIS French-Greek spectrograph

So why do you think the Greeks excel outside of Greece GIG, whereas they do so bad in their own country?
Have they been trapped in a bad political system?
Do they have bad habits while living in Greece, which by some magic they get rid of when they go abroad?
Are they they know it all guys who refuse to learn anything new, or can't do team work?
Is it because Greece as a place is so bad that they can't even have a decent living and prosper as a nation?
Or is it because the ratio between dumb and clever among them is not what it should be? (my theory)

NB. A relevant joke:
Lordo meets a mainland Greek.
What's the matter with you boys, he says, you are 10 million clever guys, how come you find one stupid among you, and make him your leader?
Look at us, we are 60 million dumb guys, we find one smart guy among us, and make him our leader.

I don't think Tsipras is stupid - Abroad, he would have swept the floor with Blair/Obama/Merkel and others held up in the West as strong politicians. But, he is held back by Greekness. Ironically, Lordo thinking they *chose* the one smart guy in Turkey is where our differences lie. The Turks have a dictator in their midst and his cult of personality has made the receptive sheep think they have chosen him!

Greeks, however, are never satisfied! They do have a thirst for knowledge! Have you heard the lyrics in the song written by the Pulp singer on his first meeting Varoufakis' wife some decades ago? "She came from Greece, she had a thirst for knowledge".

So why does Greeece apparantly sap success away from Greeks at home? I think it's quite simple really - more to do with climate/environment than government. Plus, having the weight of Greeks as a demos behind you ... pointing ... criticizing!

When abroad, Greeks are driven by the desire to go back home. So they work hard, anxiously, manically, always thinking they are working towards getting back home to Greece (or even Cyprus, not much difference in brainpower between islanders). They are more productive, trying to become *worthy* to go back home.

When they are home, back in Greece, the most beautiful place on earth, they relax and live - enjoy life with their families and the higher things which do not breed "success" in today's eyes. An English friend of mine still retells the story of how shocked she was to see me subsume a role of 'happy housewife' when she holidayed in Greece with us. Me, so content to just sweep fallen figs off the terrace and rearrange pots.

It's well known that family-centered thinking is the downfall in career success - but great otherwise. Extended family set-ups such as found in Greece generate smart kids. But, then, young adults have to break from this safety-net of mother's apron strings (bit Freudian here) and branch out and use that early developmental head-start without being tied down or suffocated with safety and comfort.

Basically, I agree Greece generates great minds but with greatness comes humility and concern for others. These aspects are not compatible with the relentless selfishness necessary for singular success.

However, if there's one capacity Greeks retain, wherever they are found, it is being super-critical of their own kind! This sometimes holds us back and sometimes spurs us on - it's all a matter of balance.

Anyway, I guess I have no answer.

[Paphitis]

But, of course, out of the 27 worldwide Personnel in the Stereo-Waves Team, 2 are from Athens:

Prof. X. Moussas Univ. of Athens (Greece) Co-I, liaison with ARTEMIS
Dr. C. Caroubalos University of Athens (Greece) Co-I Emeritus, liaison with ARTEMIS French-Greek spectrograph

So why do you think the Greeks excel outside of Greece GIG, whereas they do so bad in their own country?
Have they been trapped in a bad political system?
Do they have bad habits while living in Greece, which by some magic they get rid of when they go abroad?
Are they they know it all guys who refuse to learn anything new, or can't do team work?
Is it because Greece as a place is so bad that they can't even have a decent living and prosper as a nation?
Or is it because the ratio between dumb and clever among them is not what it should be? (my theory)

NB. A relevant joke:
Lordo meets a mainland Greek.
What's the matter with you boys, he says, you are 10 million clever guys, how come you find one stupid among you, and make him your leader?
Look at us, we are 60 million dumb guys, we find one smart guy among us, and make him our leader.

I don't think Tsipras is stupid - Abroad, he would have swept the floor with Blair/Obama/Merkel and others held up in the West as strong politicians. But, he is held back by Greekness. Ironically, Lordo thinking they *chose* the one smart guy in Turkey is where our differences lie. The Turks have a dictator in their midst and his cult of personality has made the receptive sheep think they have chosen him!

Greeks, however, are never satisfied! They do have a thirst for knowledge! Have you heard the lyrics in the song written by the Pulp singer on his first meeting Varoufakis' wife some decades ago? "She came from Greece, she had a thirst for knowledge".

So why does Greeece apparantly sap success away from Greeks at home? I think it's quite simple really - more to do with climate/environment than government. Plus, having the weight of Greeks as a demos behind you ... pointing ... criticizing!

When abroad, Greeks are driven by the desire to go back home. So they work hard, anxiously, manically, always thinking they are working towards getting back home to Greece (or even Cyprus, not much difference in brainpower between islanders). They are more productive, trying to become *worthy* to go back home.

When they are home, back in Greece, the most beautiful place on earth, they relax and live - enjoy life with their families and the higher things which do not breed "success" in today's eyes. An English friend of mine still retells the story of how shocked she was to see me subsume a role of 'happy housewife' when she holidayed in Greece with us. Me, so content to just sweep fallen figs off the terrace and rearrange pots.

It's well known that family-centered thinking is the downfall in career success - but great otherwise. Extended family set-ups such as found in Greece generate smart kids. But, then, young adults have to break from this safety-net of mother's apron strings (bit Freudian here) and branch out and use that early developmental head-start without being tied down or suffocated with safety and comfort.

Basically, I agree Greece generates great minds but with greatness comes humility and concern for others. These aspects are not compatible with the relentless selfishness necessary for singular success.

However, if there's one capacity Greeks retain, wherever they are found, it is being super-critical of their own kind! This sometimes holds us back and sometimes spurs us on - it's all a matter of balance.

Anyway, I guess I have no answer.

I don't think there are many in the Duaspora who are working in order to feel "worthy" to move back to Greece.

Most think moving back to Greece is crazy or insane.

Tsipras is not terribly bright either. He was all gun nh and then caved.Merkel wiped the floor with him. However Tsalokatos and Varoufakis might be the brains in the Syriza outfit.

Konstandopoulou, is also accused for HR violations "Rapists with Cheese Pie Scandal" a very nice choice for Speaker of the House.

[Nikitas]

Abroad the selection is based on inflexible rules, applied almost mechanically, with little room for personal bias. You prove you can do the job or go home. That simple.

In Greece the rule is who you know, political orientation that divides the candidates among "ours" and the rest. A cynical attitude that all is acceptable in the pursuit of success, that rules can be bent, that everything is politics. This attitude governs not only the choice of candidate, but also acts as a shield for his subsequent incompetence at the post, and this is probably worse than the original biased choice.

That politics bit is significant. Politics is what makes laws, so at its most cynical expression this principle allows you to think that the law is a temporary, even illegitimate device which is subject to change, ie place your ideology above the rules. Laws includes rules of any kind, whether in sport or in a commercial company. This is a direct legacy of Ottoman times, when the only thing that counted was favor of the ruler at all levels.

I will shock you with a personal experience. Among four candidates for a position, three with degrees and previous experience etc, the choice is a former taxi driver who did not finish high school. Why? Because he had the cynicism to offer the supervisor a percentage of his new, increased salary. TO make it work though one of the qualified people would have to be employed to do the job the asshole could not, but at a lower rank and salary. You can imagine the general climate in the workplace and the progress of this enterprise. The owners are constantly seeking the cause of the decline and have frequent board meetings with supervisors who employ this corrupt practice- LOL!!!

The late minister Peponis introduced an objective system for the selection of civil servants, the famous ASEP, which has been undermined by politicians in all kinds of ways.

Example- the appointment of the water company director recently. The man chosen is a former cafe and gym owner, with some dabbling in photovoltaic investment. His claim to competence? He is the boyfriend of Syriza stalwart and Attica region administrator mrs Duru. If you were a graduate in water treatment works with a PhD from a French universit how would you feel about this appointment? Which was not even advertised as a position? His first action, he called a board meeting asking for the resignation of the board becuse he intends to appoint a new board of political cronies.

GIG is desperately trying to rationalise the situation, but it bears no rationalisation or excuse. It stinks.