Cyprus-Forum.com

[Paphitis]

You still need to explain the remarkable successes of Greeks in Australia, USA and Canada. Most of them are not struggling at all and did very well for themselves.

What part of 2nd or 3rd generation didn't you understand?

The first generation worked on production lines and saved every penny for the future and to educate their children so that they did not have to work in the factories.

The 2nd and 3rd generation only built on those foundations with their degrees and business acumen which has proven to be exceptional.

The Greek Lobby in the USA is second only to the Jewish.

Some of the best scientists and innovators in the USA and AUS just so happen to be Greek.

[Nikitas]

In the USA where there are figures abou these things Greeks are, in inverse proportion to their numbers, the most educated minority group with a high representation in the top echelons of most professions.

Why there and not here?

Because they do well in regulated systems where the rules are set by others. WHen they set the rules themselves they will revert back to the "everything is politics" bullshit, ie we need to control the rules and bend the game meme and fuck things up.

Two years ago they finally got a cross the political board education law that modernised education with a 258/300 vote. Before the ink dried on the law they started to undermine it and now we have an education minister who stated publicly that excellence is a stain!!!! Can you believe that!!!! Compare that to the achievements of Greek doctors in Texas, London and Sydney and reconcile their excellence there with this asshole's opinion re excellence!!!

The appeal to the lowest common denominator is the rule for Greek politicians. Anyone who prosposes simple and workable solutions, as with Manos and his pension reform proposal, is derided and ridiculed. Twenty years ago professor Yannitsis compiled a report re the pension problem.He was ridiculed and forced to resign from his ministerial post, now, after the savage pressing of the Troika, the same report is being forced on the country and the minister entrusted with its implementaion is a second rate comedian who made his living by advertising sausages on TV. Greeks voted for him!

For fucks sake! The place needs an overhaul FAST!

[Paphitis]

In the USA where there are figures abou these things Greeks are, in inverse proportion to their numbers, the most educated minority group with a high representation in the top echelons of most professions.

Why there and not here?

Because they do well in regulated systems where the rules are set by others. WHen they set the rules themselves they will revert back to the "everything is politics" bullshit, ie we need to control the rules and bend the game meme and fuck things up.

Two years ago they finally got a cross the political board education law that modernised education with a 258/300 vote. Before the ink dried on the law they started to undermine it and now we have an education minister who stated publicly that excellence is a stain!!!! Can you believe that!!!! Compare that to the achievements of Greek doctors in Texas, London and Sydney and reconcile their excellence there with this asshole's opinion re excellence!!!

The appeal to the lowest common denominator is the rule for Greek politicians. Anyone who prosposes simple and workable solutions, as with Manos and his pension reform proposal, is derided and ridiculed. Twenty years ago professor Yannitsis compiled a report re the pension problem.He was ridiculed and forced to resign from his ministerial post, now, after the savage pressing of the Troika, the same report is being forced on the country and the minister entrusted with its implementaion is a second rate comedian who made his living by advertising sausages on TV. Greeks voted for him!

For fucks sake! The place needs an overhaul FAST!

Nikitas,

In the USA and AUS, the Greeks as well as everyone else found structure, organization, functioning institutions, a great education system (probably the best in the world), and a booming economy full of opportunity. They came, got jobs quickly, saved for the future, bought land, opened businesses and they succeeded.

This did not exist in Greece for various reasons which is not the fault of the average Joe in Greece.

There is no difference between Greeks in the Diaspora than those that remained in Greece. It's just that in Greece, the population has been denied the same regimental organization, functioning institutions, education system, because the politicians were and still are the most corrupt in the world as they are too busy ripping off the public purse and appointing their family and others in plum positions for votes.

The same thing has been occurring in Cyprus for decades. Look at the real reasons why Cyprus Airways went bust.

So of course, Greece needs reform and an urgent overhaul. So does. Cyprus because Cyprus is not much better so let's stop kidding ourselves that we are.

But how are you going to achieve this by reducing and embarrassing the entire State and People?

Sorry Nikitas, the EZ has trashed Greece and its people.

At the same time, one of the best things about Greece, is the Greek way of life. It's quite unique and we shouldn't harm this way of life either because Greeks do enjoy a great work/life/family balance which the Bankers are trying to errode away because this is something that Western Europeans don't have which makes them very jealous and easily controllable! If you're up to your eyeballs in debt, then you would work a lot more than 8 hours a day which is great for the economy and productivity but it's not such a good life wasting away in an office just to make ends meet.

[Paphitis]

In USA and AUS, look at how many Greeks Scientists work for NASA, or the CSIRO.

How many Greeks occupy Board positions in major multinationals with a net worth greater than the RoC's GDP.

The CEO of the Australian Football League was Cypriot. The top advisor to former Prime Minister John Howard and right hand man was Greek.

How many are now running multi million dollar SMEs?

The Greeks and Jews are disproportionally represented in key positions in both the USA and AUS. FACT!

Which indicates to me that Greece has been under performing and has a lot more potential if and only if the country is cleaned up from all the rubbish trash that currently run it. When they get a Government brave enough to clean all the shit, then the country can go from strength to strength. Maybe a dictator Junta government is needed.

[Nikitas]

Paphitis,

The people are sovereign, they choose their leaders, and increasingly it looks like those Greeks, not foreigners, that sasy Greeks are "enas laos malakas" might be right. You can forgive some wrong choices, but not the habit of chosing the wrong people all the time. The sausage salesman was not appointed by the EZ Troika, he was elected by adults, and it is tragic to see who was rejected inorder to elect the sausage man.

The education reform law allowed for the appointment of those succesful Greeks who achieved high academic status in universities like Cambridge, Harvard et al to serve on Greek university boards. This provision was deemed "subversive" by the current minister and has been abolished!!!!

And bear in mind, while Greeks voted no in the referendum an even bigger majority, 80 per cent want to remain in the EZ, go figure!

Yesterday the migration policy minister said that the ragtag refugee camp that sprang up in the Athens central park Areos was no problem, it is a tourist attraction! Thkiaole Mavre!!!!

Cyprus might have its problems, but it is nothing like here. Greece is the prime sui generis example in the world. It is a law unto itself.

I don't get why the EZ people are jealous and want to abolish the Greek way of life. Statistically more Greeks opt for the northern European way of life, by emigrating, than Europeans opting to copy the Greek way by moving here.

After 40 years here I am awed by the almost reflex action rejection of any proposal to simplify life and make things easier. We have a compatriot, senior systems analyst and business consultant who writes for the Kathimerin business pages, Drymiotis, his experiences are at a higher level and better documented than mine, a good read on Sundays.

[Paphitis]

You got to ask yourself Nikitas one question which I have been asking myself.

Greeks are traveling to USA and AUS in greater numbers and what do do they see? They see a vibrant community which is also quite influential in both countries, productive and which are great ambassadors for Greece. Do some research to see how many run great businesses, how many are on pro sports club boards, multinational boards, how many are silks, how many are at the forefront of Science, Medicine, Defence Companies, etc etc. It's mind boggling at what they have been able to achieve in a short space of time.

The USA almost had a Greek President too. Imagine that!

I can't imagine Greeks not wanting almost the same level of opportunity as their migrant expat counterparts.

I reckon it's possible if the country is overhauled and why they don't just send people over to those countries and just copy all their processes, their ideas and ways has got me stuffed. I also believe it is because the establishment don't want this change for the better because if they introduced new reforms, they would lose power and their ability to rip off the people from within the deep State. They would need to introduce review boards and committees for everything that involves public money for starters. Not to say that some scandals do not occur but jeez you better watch out.

I can see that living in Greece is frustrating. I get frustrated too and I don't live there. To put it bluntly, it's a shit country to live and work in so I feel for you. I can see why Greeks are angry and nearly burned Athens down as counterproductive such a thing is.

But also look at the last 30 years. What choices did Greeks have? Only the ruling establishments of the Papandreous (he was revered) but ultimately such a figure would be in jail in USA or AUS, Karamanlis, Mitsotakis etc etc. There have been 2 or 3 Dynasties in Greece which have maintained a stranglehold and it's these figures which have kept Greece where it is as a tinpot.

Democracy is great but some dictatorships or monarchs are great too. All you need to do is travel to places like Oman, Qatar, UAE to see that they sometimes work for the populace. Sometimes it's better to have one family ripping off the system rather than have a free for all for 300 people and their circles.

[Nikitas]

Paphiti,

reading your post brought to mind a tv brodcast from Alaska, of all places, back when the first oil exploration rights were auctioned out.

A three person committee sat at a table, one guy split open the envelopes with the offers, right there, in front of the cameras, and read out the tenders, while in the audience sat the CEOs of the tendering corporations. After reading out the billions offered and the ranking of the tenders, the committee spokesman exclaimed: "and they call it a wasteland!".

There is an example to follow on public works tenders. What could be simpler? Try and propose it here and the "oppressed" voter will be the first one to bring up objections. His nature is to be contary even if it goes against his inerests. I even heard the improbable "it is better to be cheated by Greeks than treated fairly by foreigners" over an international tender for the old airport.

Ta thelei o kolos tous.

[observer]

Paphitus

The USA almost had a Greek President too. Imagine that!

Can you be referring to Spiro Agnew, Richard Nixon's Vice President who was forced to resign because of accepting bribes and later forced to pay back over $250,000 to the state of Maryland as a result. Old country ethics perhaps.

[Get Real!]

Paphitus

The USA almost had a Greek President too. Imagine that!

Can you be referring to Spiro Agnew, Richard Nixon's Vice President who was forced to resign because of accepting bribes and later forced to pay back over $250,000 to the state of Maryland as a result. Old country ethics perhaps.

He's probably thinking of Dukakis.

[Paphitis]

Paphitus

The USA almost had a Greek President too. Imagine that!

Can you be referring to Spiro Agnew, Richard Nixon's Vice President who was forced to resign because of accepting bribes and later forced to pay back over $250,000 to the state of Maryland as a result. Old country ethics perhaps.

No I am referring to Dukakis.

I was not aware of Spiro Agnew but there is another very high achiever. He became VP to Nixon.

The day a Turk achieves that, then you can talk.

The Greeks and News are very well entrenched within the US Deep State, Congress, Republicans and Democrats. It's a shame Greece has never been capable of harnessing this power like Israel does.