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Signs that the EU is getting what it paid Turkey for

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Re: Signs that the EU is getting what it paid Turkey for

Postby supporttheunderdog » Sun Mar 06, 2016 1:04 pm

Kikapu wrote:
Kikapu wrote:Actually, EU is just paying lip service to blackmailing Turkey for threatening the EU by sending the refugees in Turkey to the EU, unless the EU does this this this for Turkey. The EU has bought some time for themselves so that they can close the borders and do away with the Schengen agreement for the time being, at which time the refugees Turkey sending to the EU will not be able to go any further than Greece perhaps. Once the refugees realize Greece is the furthers they will be able to travel to, they will rather stay in Turkey and not risk getting drowned and ending up on Turkish beaches wearing their deadly "life jackets" made in Turkey that killed them.

Turkey thinks they now have the upper hand for the EU to meet their demands in opening more EU chapters, Visa free travel to the Turks and so on. Once the EU closes it's borders withing the EU, Turkey will then lose it's blackmailing power over the EU, at which time, Turkey can kiss off the 3.2 Billion Euros, Visa free travel for the Turks in the EU as well as opening more chapters, other than the ones the EU may have already agreed to open.


Well, it seems like the outcome is happening as I had suggested a while back in how to deal with Turkey's blackmailing efforts in sending the refugees to the EU. Fortunately, Macedonia has taken the lead to save the EU's butt by closing their borders with Greece to stop the flow of refugees from Turkey to the rest of Europe via Greece. Once the refugees realize that Greece is as far as they can travel to, they will stop coming to Greece and not risk getting drowned, hence Turkey losing it's blackmailing hand with the EU. The EU should now tell Turkey to take a hike with it's Visa-free travel for the Turks in the EU as well as it's EU aspirations, specially since already few countries within the Schengen has already imposed border controls and also to not pay Turkey the 3 billion Euros for the refugees in Turkey that Turkey is part responsible for the Syrian war.

In fact, what the EU should do with that 3 billion Euros, is to give it to Greece to help facilitate in sending the refugees back to Turkey, and if Turkey does not take these refugees back willingly, because Turkey is now claiming that any return of refugees back to Turkey does not include the Syrians and Iraqis in their deal with the Visa free travel for the Turks (what bullshit), then what Greece should do, is to use the money from the EU and build many small safe boats and send the refugees back to Turkey with food and water from the closest Greek islands back to Turkey, with the Greek Navy escorting them to their maritime borders with Turkey, just to make sure that they are safe to that point, and for them to be on their own until they reach the Turkish coast, which won't be more that few miles. This is the only way to stop Turkey sending the refugees to the EU. In the meantime, for Greece and Bulgaria to also close their land borders with Turkey regarding the refugees.


Quite happy to agree to the above....
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Re: Signs that the EU is getting what it paid Turkey for

Postby erolz66 » Sun Mar 06, 2016 1:51 pm

Some thoughts, specifically re Kikapu posts

Kikapu wrote: and do away with the Schengen agreement for the time being,


Doing away with the Schengen agreement even for the 'time being' is I suggest a 'big deal'. Not in the sense that Europe can not function without Schengen, clearly it can and could. However it is integral to the drive towards ever greater federalisation of the EU. Scrapping it, even temporarily, delivers a huge blow to both the process and ideal of ever greater federalisation of the EU. In pretty much the same way that an imposition of border controls within and between US states, even temporarily, would deliver a massive blow to the idea of a federal USA. Schenghen is breaking down under the burden of this unprecedented crisis, but for those who are invested in the steady evolution of the EU towards a united states of Europe, this really is a 'big deal' and absolutely an option of 'no other resort'. Of course for those who the increasing evolution of the EU into the USE is an anathema, this break down of Schengen is desirable.


Kikapu wrote: at which time the refugees Turkey sending to the EU will not be able to go any further than Greece perhaps. Once the refugees realize Greece is the furthers they will be able to travel to, they will rather stay in Turkey


Such would decrease flows but it would not end them. One only has to look at the camps in Calais to see that even with a 'closed border' and no ability of those migrants there to go any further than France, migrants still gather there and many still take inordinate risk to move from there to the UK. Also even if the borders out from Greece could be and are effectively closed in totality, this would not end any possible route for a migrant who is a genuine refugee to be able to make it to say German, it would just delay their ability to do that by around 5 years, A 'genuine refugee' (by current legal standards - I personally hate term 'genuine' by these standards) that reaches Greece and who obtains that status there , will then be on the path to Citizenship, that takes around 5 years. Once they reach this end gaol they can move to and live and work in any EU country of their choice.

A 'genuine' refugee that arrives in Greece from Turkey can legally be returned Turkey, only so long as the human rights of that refugee are respected in Turkey. If by will (of Turkey) or not, those rights are found by a suitable court with suitable jurisdiction (ECHR, or ECJ) then no EU member will legally be able to return such genuine refugees to Turkey. If those that reach Greece are unable to move on to other EU countries until they gain full citizenship and if (this is not the case currently but could easily become so) Greece becomes unable to return them to Turkey (because a court with jurisdiction has deemed doing so would be an infringement of their human rights), this then will place a massive burden those EU countries with 'external borders' geographically on the 'routes' migrants are taking - meaning Greece mostly but also to a lesser degree, Italy and others.

Kikapu wrote:Turkey thinks they now have the upper hand for the EU to meet their demands in opening more EU chapters, Visa free travel to the Turks and so on. Once the EU closes it's borders withing the EU, Turkey will then lose it's blackmailing power over the EU, at which time, Turkey can kiss off the 3.2 Billion Euros, Visa free travel for the Turks in the EU as well as opening more chapters, other than the ones the EU may have already agreed to open.


As far as I can see it the 'blackmail power' (leverage) Turkey has is to actually create or allow to be created by inaction a situation in Turkey whereby the human rights of genuine refugees are not respected, to a degree that a court like the ECHR or ECJ would have no option but to rule this is the case - with the result of prohibiting any legal return of such people to Turkey by anyone bound by the jurisdiction of that court. This I believe is what the 3billion the EU is offering to Turkey is intended to achieve, ensuring that the human rights of genuine refugees within Turkey are respected, on the basis that the costs of not achieving will ultimately be much higher for the EU as a whole (and disproportionately so on Greece within the EU for that matter).
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Re: Signs that the EU is getting what it paid Turkey for

Postby Lordo » Sun Mar 06, 2016 3:50 pm

Kikapu wrote:
Kikapu wrote:Actually, EU is just paying lip service to blackmailing Turkey for threatening the EU by sending the refugees in Turkey to the EU, unless the EU does this this this for Turkey. The EU has bought some time for themselves so that they can close the borders and do away with the Schengen agreement for the time being, at which time the refugees Turkey sending to the EU will not be able to go any further than Greece perhaps. Once the refugees realize Greece is the furthers they will be able to travel to, they will rather stay in Turkey and not risk getting drowned and ending up on Turkish beaches wearing their deadly "life jackets" made in Turkey that killed them.

Turkey thinks they now have the upper hand for the EU to meet their demands in opening more EU chapters, Visa free travel to the Turks and so on. Once the EU closes it's borders withing the EU, Turkey will then lose it's blackmailing power over the EU, at which time, Turkey can kiss off the 3.2 Billion Euros, Visa free travel for the Turks in the EU as well as opening more chapters, other than the ones the EU may have already agreed to open.


Well, it seems like the outcome is happening as I had suggested a while back in how to deal with Turkey's blackmailing efforts in sending the refugees to the EU. Fortunately, Macedonia has taken the lead to save the EU's butt by closing their borders with Greece to stop the flow of refugees from Turkey to the rest of Europe via Greece. Once the refugees realize that Greece is as far as they can travel to, they will stop coming to Greece and not risk getting drowned, hence Turkey losing it's blackmailing hand with the EU. The EU should now tell Turkey to take a hike with it's Visa-free travel for the Turks in the EU as well as it's EU aspirations, specially since already few countries within the Schengen has already imposed border controls and also to not pay Turkey the 3 billion Euros for the refugees in Turkey that Turkey is part responsible for the Syrian war.

In fact, what the EU should do with that 3 billion Euros, is to give it to Greece to help facilitate in sending the refugees back to Turkey, and if Turkey does not take these refugees back willingly, because Turkey is now claiming that any return of refugees back to Turkey does not include the Syrians and Iraqis in their deal with the Visa free travel for the Turks (what bullshit), then what Greece should do, is to use the money from the EU and build many small safe boats and send the refugees back to Turkey with food and water from the closest Greek islands back to Turkey, with the Greek Navy escorting them to their maritime borders with Turkey, just to make sure that they are safe to that point, and for them to be on their own until they reach the Turkish coast, which won't be more that few miles. This is the only way to stop Turkey sending the refugees to the EU. In the meantime, for Greece and Bulgaria to also close their land borders with Turkey regarding the refugees.

with you it is me myself and i. ffs man who do you think you are and old fool like the other one. two peas in a furquine pod.
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Re: Signs that the EU is getting what it paid Turkey for

Postby miltiades » Sun Mar 06, 2016 5:05 pm

Two intelligent, eloquent, well educated T/Cs make intellectual postings, along comes the 86 year old Vordo with half, if any, brain cell to interrupt! Stick to your Pork Kebabs old man. By the way, are you half Jewish by any chance ? :lol: :lol:
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Re: Signs that the EU is getting what it paid Turkey for

Postby Lordo » Sun Mar 06, 2016 7:27 pm

miltiades wrote:Two intelligent, eloquent, well educated T/Cs make intellectual postings, along comes the 86 year old Vordo with half, if any, brain cell to interrupt! Stick to your Pork Kebabs old man. By the way, are you half Jewish by any chance ? :lol: :lol:

two peas in a pod not a brain cell between them ffs. go to sleep you old fool otherwise you will be more grumpy them you already are tomorrow reh kilinjiro yero
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Re: Signs that the EU is getting what it paid Turkey for

Postby miltiades » Sun Mar 06, 2016 8:24 pm

Lordo wrote:
miltiades wrote:Two intelligent, eloquent, well educated T/Cs make intellectual postings, along comes the 86 year old Vordo with half, if any, brain cell to interrupt! Stick to your Pork Kebabs old man. By the way, are you half Jewish by any chance ? :lol: :lol:

two peas in a pod not a brain cell between them ffs. go to sleep you old fool otherwise you will be more grumpy them you already are tomorrow reh kilinjiro yero

In 4 years you will be 90 years ! :lol: :lol: old. Don't you think its time you checked that Pork Kebab, I don't want it burned :lol:
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Re: Signs that the EU is getting what it paid Turkey for

Postby Lordo » Sun Mar 06, 2016 10:25 pm

have you sold any pots and pants today reh yerojingane
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Re: Signs that the EU is getting what it paid Turkey for

Postby miltiades » Sun Mar 06, 2016 11:11 pm

Lordo wrote:have you sold any pots and pants today reh yerojingane


Yes ...two pairs of pants :lol: :lol:
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Re: Signs that the EU is getting what it paid Turkey for

Postby Lordo » Mon Mar 07, 2016 12:42 am

ehases do nussu reh yerogondoximarismenobotsi hade lamne na pesis na jimihis dje ehumen vulyan emis.
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Re: Signs that the EU is getting what it paid Turkey for

Postby repulsewarrior » Mon Mar 07, 2016 1:51 am

...two kebab, please.
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