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Theresa May's declaration.

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Re: Theresa May's declaration.

Postby Tim Drayton » Wed Oct 12, 2016 11:07 am

Whatever else you can say, you cannot deny that the consensus view among economists is that the UK is/will be better off in the EU. Of course, you will find some dissenting opinions.

Economists’ rare unity highlights peril of Brexit

https://www.ft.com/content/e66852f0-324 ... ee5ffe5b5b
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Re: Theresa May's declaration.

Postby Tim Drayton » Wed Oct 12, 2016 11:11 am

Paphitis wrote: It wouldn't have mattered if the BREXITERs lost would it? No of course it wouldn't.



If the Brexiteers had lost, they would have continued their campaign for the country to commit suicide, and this would have been their democratic right. It is also the democratic right of those of us who oppose this decision to campaign for the UK to remain in the EU and to try to win over the majority (which in this case means pursuading 3-4% of the population to switch sides) to this view.
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Re: Theresa May's declaration.

Postby Paphitis » Wed Oct 12, 2016 11:14 am

Tim Drayton wrote:Whatever else you can say, you cannot deny that the consensus view among economists is that the UK is/will be better off in the EU. Of course, you will find some dissenting opinions.

Economists’ rare unity highlights peril of Brexit

https://www.ft.com/content/e66852f0-324 ... ee5ffe5b5b


Rubbish.

How can you say it is a consensus view? Did they ask all the economists of the world? no!
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Re: Theresa May's declaration.

Postby Paphitis » Wed Oct 12, 2016 11:15 am

Tim Drayton wrote:
Paphitis wrote: It wouldn't have mattered if the BREXITERs lost would it? No of course it wouldn't.



If the Brexiteers had lost, they would have continued their campaign for the country to commit suicide, and this would have been their democratic right. It is also the democratic right of those of us who oppose this decision to campaign for the UK to remain in the EU and to try to win over the majority (which in this case means pursuading 3-4% of the population to switch sides) to this view.


Yes and you guys would have reminded them that they are all uneducated dimwits I am sure!

Which I thought was deplorable.

Not everyone is in lalaland or has 5 degrees, a masters and a doctorate in Philosophy like the Remainers do, yet probably don't work on production lines either getting their hands dirty on close to minimum wage. Probably don't work as many hours either but no mention of that hey.
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Re: Theresa May's declaration.

Postby Londonrake » Wed Oct 12, 2016 11:19 am

Tim Drayton wrote:Whatever else you can say, you cannot deny that the consensus view among economists is that the UK is/will be better off in the EU. Of course, you will find some dissenting opinions.


IIRC the consensus view amongst economists at the time was we would be better off joining the Euro. Moreover, that not doing so would result in "isolation" "having no voice at the table" and in some cases "economic suicide". Thank God. I can just imagine where the UK would be now if Tony ("vote for me as EU President") Blair had gotten his way. It's now the same people basically saying the same things.

Nearly all the debate in here is weighted towards economics but if course it's only one aspect.
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Re: Theresa May's declaration.

Postby Pyrpolizer » Wed Oct 12, 2016 11:40 am

Paphitis wrote:
Tim Drayton wrote:Raoul Ruparel says with reference to in-depth research conducted by his thinktank, Open Europe:

“What we found is that, in the long run (up to 2030), there will be a permanent cost to leaving the customs union. This cost is around 1% to 1.2% GDP.”

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... on-uk-25bn

Never mind, that’s obviously just more moaning by the remainers! But it’s not. Raoul Ruparel has been hired by David Davis, Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union, to provide expertise on the process of leaving the EU.


And how did they come up with that?

Where are their calculations? There are none because they don't have a clue. Their calculations are based on assumptions. Did they assume there would be no FTA with the EU, and if so, also no FTA with America and other countries? What are their variables and assumptions?

But let's say it is true. 1% to 1.2% is not much especially if its over a 24 year period.

This is just agenda driven anti BREXIT scare mongering journalism. The journo got up and decided or was instructed to find any so called analysis material that paints the BREXIT in bad light. so they came across this "think tank" which could also be agenda driven by a foreign Government like the USA for instance.

Bottom line is this. We won't know for sure until after BREXIT. I do have a gut feeling though, that Britain will have the best of both worlds. they will have the FTA other EU members have without the extra baggage or compliance with all the EU nonsense.


I liked that! :lol: :lol:
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Re: Theresa May's declaration.

Postby Tim Drayton » Wed Oct 12, 2016 12:30 pm

Paphitis wrote:
Tim Drayton wrote:
Paphitis wrote: It wouldn't have mattered if the BREXITERs lost would it? No of course it wouldn't.



If the Brexiteers had lost, they would have continued their campaign for the country to commit suicide, and this would have been their democratic right. It is also the democratic right of those of us who oppose this decision to campaign for the UK to remain in the EU and to try to win over the majority (which in this case means pursuading 3-4% of the population to switch sides) to this view.


Yes and you guys would have reminded them that they are all uneducated dimwits I am sure!

Which I thought was deplorable.

Not everyone is in lalaland or has 5 degrees, a masters and a doctorate in Philosophy like the Remainers do, yet probably don't work on production lines either getting their hands dirty on close to minimum wage. Probably don't work as many hours either but no mention of that hey.


You will find that the majority of all people in employment voted remain, not just those with degrees, and it was the votes of people on pensions and welfare that swung it.
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Re: Theresa May's declaration.

Postby Tim Drayton » Wed Oct 12, 2016 12:31 pm

Londonrake wrote:
Tim Drayton wrote:Whatever else you can say, you cannot deny that the consensus view among economists is that the UK is/will be better off in the EU. Of course, you will find some dissenting opinions.


IIRC the consensus view amongst economists at the time was we would be better off joining the Euro. Moreover, that not doing so would result in "isolation" "having no voice at the table" and in some cases "economic suicide". Thank God. I can just imagine where the UK would be now if Tony ("vote for me as EU President") Blair had gotten his way. It's now the same people basically saying the same things.

Nearly all the debate in here is weighted towards economics but if course it's only one aspect.


Interesting. You are saying that there are things that are worth being poorer for. Would you care to elaborate?
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Re: Theresa May's declaration.

Postby Robin Hood » Wed Oct 12, 2016 1:02 pm

Tim Drayton wrote:
Paphitis wrote:
Tim Drayton wrote:
Paphitis wrote: It wouldn't have mattered if the BREXITERs lost would it? No of course it wouldn't.



If the Brexiteers had lost, they would have continued their campaign for the country to commit suicide, and this would have been their democratic right. It is also the democratic right of those of us who oppose this decision to campaign for the UK to remain in the EU and to try to win over the majority (which in this case means pursuading 3-4% of the population to switch sides) to this view.


Yes and you guys would have reminded them that they are all uneducated dimwits I am sure!

Which I thought was deplorable.

Not everyone is in lalaland or has 5 degrees, a masters and a doctorate in Philosophy like the Remainers do, yet probably don't work on production lines either getting their hands dirty on close to minimum wage. Probably don't work as many hours either but no mention of that hey.


You will find that the majority of all people in employment voted remain, not just those with degrees, and it was the votes of people on pensions and welfare that swung it.


Rather than just regarding them all as geriatric dim wits did you ever consider that they had a far better concept of what being a member of a Federal Europe would mean. Because as far as I am concerned, that and that alone was sufficient reason to get out. I knew 'they' would attack the Pound and thus affect my income but I am convinced that it was the right decision. You, as one who supported the argument to remain were also fed a lot of lies and misrepresentation, but the 'remoaners' never refer to their own howlers of doom-and-gloom which have not materialised.

I agree with Paphitis on very few subjects but on this one I think he has offered quite a few sensible views.
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Re: Theresa May's declaration.

Postby Tim Drayton » Wed Oct 12, 2016 1:14 pm

Robin Hood wrote:You, as one who supported the argument to remain were also fed a lot of lies and misrepresentation, but the 'remoaners' never refer to their own howlers of doom-and-gloom which have not materialised.


Back again with your silly straw man fallacies, are you? Who on earth ever said that we would feel the negative effects of leaving the EU until it actually happens? You are reading too many comics like the Daily Express. That's where you get this ridiculous expression 'remoaners' from. Please quote one single authority who said the doom and gloom would take effect the day after the vote, while we are still EU members?
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