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May's Brexit Speech

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Re: May's Brexit Speech

Postby Tim Drayton » Thu Feb 02, 2017 4:28 pm

Londonrake wrote:...
much bigger ones that came out of Cameron, Osborne and their big business/diplomatic friends. You know, the crowd that told us that if we didn't' sign up to the Euro, we would face economic hardship/stagnation and "isolation". According to their prophecies people in the U.K. should now be wandering an economic, post apocalyptic landscape. Clearly..................they were fibbing.


No, we haven't left the EU yet. The UK is still a full member of the EU and continues to enjoy the benefits. These things will come if we leave.
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Re: May's Brexit Speech

Postby Tim Drayton » Thu Feb 02, 2017 4:32 pm

Londonrake wrote:I don't understand what you mean by ignoring the existence of those who voted to remain.


For example, you told me I would be a very lonely man if I were to campaign for reentry when in fact I would be in the company of almost half the country, and the younger, richer and better educated half - although that will partly depend on how fast and immediate the inevitable brain drain will be. I get the feeling you don't really realise how many EU supporters there are out there.
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Re: May's Brexit Speech

Postby Londonrake » Thu Feb 02, 2017 5:45 pm

Tim Drayton wrote:
Londonrake wrote:...
much bigger ones that came out of Cameron, Osborne and their big business/diplomatic friends. You know, the crowd that told us that if we didn't' sign up to the Euro, we would face economic hardship/stagnation and "isolation". According to their prophecies people in the U.K. should now be wandering an economic, post apocalyptic landscape. Clearly..................they were fibbing.


No, we haven't left the EU yet. The UK is still a full member of the EU and continues to enjoy the benefits. These things will come if we leave.


But that's not what happened Tim.

During the campaign many people made apocalyptic predictions of things that would come about IMMEDIATELY. Since, virtually all of them have had to eat humble pie as their prophecies have been shown up for the fear mongering rubbish they were.

Osborne spoke of an immediate, self inflicted recession. An emergency budget in the weeks after the vote which would implement draconian changes in taxation. Other such rubbish. The IMF claimed that interest rates would increase to 3.5% BY CHRISTMAS. Afterwards the same morons were talking about a CUT in rates! Which of course is what transpired,

Treasury forecasters (now, surely that is an oxymoron!) and the supposedly apolitical BoE have had to back track. Business leaders, who offered glimpses of immediate trauma are now "more relaxed" about Brexit. Some of the worst culprits actually announcing further large investment in their UK businesses.

Obama and his "back of the queue" (clue, he didn't say the US "line"). Fear mongering rubbish. The list goes on.

You can continue to say that it was all true and will happen - tomorrow but that's not what they said. They lied through their teeth, to try and frighten people into voting remain. Is it any wonder there's so much cynicism about the political and big business establishments?


Tim Drayton wrote:
Londonrake wrote:I don't understand what you mean by ignoring the existence of those who voted to remain.


For example, you told me I would be a very lonely man if I were to campaign for reentry when in fact I would be in the company of almost half the country, and the younger, richer and better educated half - although that will partly depend on how fast and immediate the inevitable brain drain will be. I get the feeling you don't really realise how many EU supporters there are out there.


I don't care how many EU supporters there are. Anymore than I, for instance, care how many Corynistas there are. However, if you're right then there will of course be a chance every 5 years to prove it, by all of you voting for a party which offers a policy of rejoining. If you succeed I solemnly promise not to whinge about it. But - you won't. It'll be very much a case of "never again" :wink:
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Re: May's Brexit Speech

Postby Tim Drayton » Thu Feb 02, 2017 5:59 pm

Londonrake wrote:During the campaign many people made apocalyptic predictions of things that would come about IMMEDIATELY.


That's a man of straw argument. Nobody said that. Some of us said, and continue to say, that leaving the EU will have disastrous consequences. And no - not all on day one. The immediate next day if and when we leave will feel pretty much like the day before. Some of the negative consequences will be felt more immediately some will take longer. The effects will be felt over years.
Please provide a quote of anybody in the remain campaign who said that the first day after a vote to leave, and while we still remain full members of the EU, there would be an apocalypse. Nobody did so.
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Re: May's Brexit Speech

Postby Tim Drayton » Thu Feb 02, 2017 6:02 pm

Londonrake wrote:[
I don't care how many EU supporters there are.


But, you see, in telling me that I will be a lonely man in campaigning for reaccession, this shows that you do care. The same goes when you quote recent poll figures. In fact, you seem downright desperate to downplay the number.
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Re: May's Brexit Speech

Postby Tim Drayton » Thu Feb 02, 2017 6:04 pm

Londonrake wrote:... If you succeed I solemnly promise not to whinge about it. But - you won't. It'll be very much a case of "never again" :wink:


Given that you have powers of second sight, any chance you could give me the racing winners for tomorrow? Ta.
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Re: May's Brexit Speech

Postby Robin Hood » Thu Feb 02, 2017 6:32 pm

Tim Drayton wrote:
Londonrake wrote:I don't understand what you mean by ignoring the existence of those who voted to remain.


For example, you told me I would be a very lonely man if I were to campaign for reentry when in fact I would be in the company of almost half the country, and the younger, richer and better educated half - although that will partly depend on how fast and immediate the inevitable brain drain will be. I get the feeling you don't really realise how many EU supporters there are out there.


You are a born pessimist ........

TD:
.......... and the younger, richer and better educated half ..........

So, if you are older (Age ... what, over 40?) are not rich (You don’t have a state-of-the-art mobile, don’t wear designer clothes and a drive an ordinary car that is paid for) and have a BA degree in Origami, as opposed to only an HNC in engineering with some 40+ years of working experience to back it .............. that makes that persons views of no significance? :roll:

I had no vote, but I would have voted remain! Not because I thought it was the best choice but because, as LR previously stated, it would have been a soft option with minimum effect on my way of life. I would have stupidly have been voting for the status quo. :|

My real inclination was for leaving, driven by my own views against the advancing Federal States of Europe, under the domination of The French and The Germans, and I believe many that voted did so for that reason.

Secondly ..... I am a firm believer that a country, to be a country, has to have borders! Surely it is as important to control your borders to limit who comes into your country, as it is for you to have a garden fence and a lockable front door, to decide who you will allow into your home?

LR is right! Almost all of the immediate negative effects that Cameron et al used to scare the population into voting to remain, eventually came to nothing. All the economic signs so far see an improvement in the UK’s lot. The same cannot be said for the EU, particularly those in the Euro Zone, even the creator of it is now forecasting its failure. :roll:
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Re: May's Brexit Speech

Postby Londonrake » Thu Feb 02, 2017 6:52 pm

Tim Drayton wrote:
Londonrake wrote:... If you succeed I solemnly promise not to whinge about it. But - you won't. It'll be very much a case of "never again" :wink:


Given that you have powers of second sight, any chance you could give me the racing winners for tomorrow? Ta.


Is that an "Ad hominem"? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Perhaps I can see the wood for what it is. As opposed to just the trees I want to see. :wink:
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Re: May's Brexit Speech

Postby Londonrake » Thu Feb 02, 2017 7:17 pm

Tim Drayton wrote:
Londonrake wrote:During the campaign many people made apocalyptic predictions of things that would come about IMMEDIATELY.


That's a man of straw argument. Nobody said that. Some of us said, and continue to say, that leaving the EU will have disastrous consequences. And no - not all on day one. The immediate next day if and when we leave will feel pretty much like the day before. Some of the negative consequences will be felt more immediately some will take longer. The effects will be felt over years.
Please provide a quote of anybody in the remain campaign who said that the first day after a vote to leave, and while we still remain full members of the EU, there would be an apocalypse. Nobody did so.


No, it isn't.

"George Osborne will warn that he would have to fill the £30bn black hole in public finances triggered by a vote to leave the European Union by hiking income tax, alcohol and petrol duties and making massive cuts to the NHS, schools and defence.

In a sign of the panic gripping the remain campaign, the chancellor plans to say that the hit to the economy will be so large that he will have little choice but to tear apart Conservative manifesto promises in an emergency budget delivered within weeks of an out vote."


"George Osborne is warning that Britain would face a year-long “DIY recession” following a vote to leave the European Union, as he raises the stakes in the referendum battle on Monday with one month until polling day.

“a vote to leave would represent an immediate and profound shock to our economy. That shock would push our economy into a recession”. There’s no doubt whatsoever that he meant that the economy would enter negative growth immediately after the vote

Let's bear in mind that this isn't some Civil Service jobsworth or journalist hack. It's the UK's Second Lord of the Treasury quoting his own "experts" forecasts. One of, if not the, principal leaders and architect of the remain campaign.

Were you on holiday or something? :?
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Re: May's Brexit Speech

Postby Robin Hood » Thu Feb 02, 2017 8:09 pm

Londonrake wrote:
Tim Drayton wrote:
Londonrake wrote:During the campaign many people made apocalyptic predictions of things that would come about IMMEDIATELY.


That's a man of straw argument. Nobody said that. Some of us said, and continue to say, that leaving the EU will have disastrous consequences. And no - not all on day one. The immediate next day if and when we leave will feel pretty much like the day before. Some of the negative consequences will be felt more immediately some will take longer. The effects will be felt over years.
Please provide a quote of anybody in the remain campaign who said that the first day after a vote to leave, and while we still remain full members of the EU, there would be an apocalypse. Nobody did so.


No, it isn't.

"George Osborne will warn that he would have to fill the £30bn black hole in public finances triggered by a vote to leave the European Union by hiking income tax, alcohol and petrol duties and making massive cuts to the NHS, schools and defence.

In a sign of the panic gripping the remain campaign, the chancellor plans to say that the hit to the economy will be so large that he will have little choice but to tear apart Conservative manifesto promises in an emergency budget delivered within weeks of an out vote."


"George Osborne is warning that Britain would face a year-long “DIY recession” following a vote to leave the European Union, as he raises the stakes in the referendum battle on Monday with one month until polling day.

“a vote to leave would represent an immediate and profound shock to our economy. That shock would push our economy into a recession”. There’s no doubt whatsoever that he meant that the economy would enter negative growth immediately after the vote

Let's bear in mind that this isn't some Civil Service jobsworth or journalist hack. It's the UK's Second Lord of the Treasury quoting his own "experts" forecasts. One of, if not the, principal leaders and architect of the remain campaign.

Were you on holiday or something? :?


They only got it wrong because they didn't listen to the '.....young, rich and intelligent!' Remainers ' :wink:
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