Cyprus-Forum.com

[magikthrill]

Hey Mills,

It's good to have another intelligent person's opinion on this forum. You're right about construtive criticism leading to a better understanding of a different opinion.

I agree with a united school since education is the foundation for a peaceful coexitence between the two peoples. However, you mention two education ministers, but the problem is there's only one. The northern pseudo-state has no legal ground to declare ministers of any sort.

However, what could work would be a school where the RoC offers perhaps scholarships to TCs to come to the school. Since the location of the TCs is currently illegally occupied, perhaps this school can be located near the green line, so that both communities have access to it. What do you think?

[Mills Chapman]

Erolz, there would be no entrance exams since all of the new students each year would be one-year-olds or two-year-olds. This would not be a school for those who have the “genius” genes. Also, the school would strive to be free to the parents and would not have entrance fees.

Since I am covering the rest of my answers to your questions in my proposal (funding, security, downsides of using The English School, teaching lanaguage and history, etc.), I am deleting the rest of this message so that the thread is more concise. Thanks. Mills

[Mills Chapman]

Magikthrill, I understand the sensitivity of using the word "administration" or "government" after the words, "Turkish Cypriot." I rely on The Cyprus Mail for my Cyprus news, and they seem to put quotation marks around these two words when talking about people north of the UN line. I'm not sure as to what the politically correct semantics are here, so I am dancing lightly around this.

[magikthrill]

Mills,

Here on the west coast its 2 am and I have a statistics final tomorrow. So my apologies as well if nothing makes sense.

When I was referring to the location of the school I actually meant the same thing. I had in mind the village of Pyla, where TCs ang GCs live togeher in the buffer zone.

As far as picturing this school its get kind of complicated. I mean naturally, a school woud have a flag right? But would the TCs accept the RoC's flag? IMO the Cyprus flug is a very beautiful one, and I appreciate the fact that there are no greek nor turkish colors on it. Therefore, I believe it would be fair for it to be displayed in the school since the flag is a represenation of the coming together of the two communities.

The curriculum could also be diffuclt. I mean would history be taught? Cause if so, Cyprus's history cause back to ancient times but only from a GC ponit of view. The TCs have only been on the island since the reign of the Ottoman Empire. Would the students learn about all the ancient monuments on the island, even though they are Greek. Or would they learn that Aphrodite was named after being born from the foams of Cyprus? Or would they learn about Ataturk and the modern Turkish revolution.

What is your opinion on the curriculum matter?

[erolz]

Hi Mills

Thanks for your long and considered post. I certainly consider that you have answered my concerns re the school becomming a 'elitist' insitution aimed at only a certain sector of each communities childre (be that based on intelligence or wealth or any other criteria).

All in all I think your idea has much merit. I would certainly support such an effort. I wish you all the best in any efforts you might make to turn this idea into a concrete reality.

[brother]

Hi Mills, firstly welcome to the forum, i have read your posts and been to the links you have provided even though your web site does not come up, the idea you are putting up i have suggested on a grander scale before on this forum but starting smaller like a school which you suggested has probably more chance of working, so i will be keeping an eager eye on your posts hence forth and look forward to more suggestions and hopefully more contributions from you on other posts.

[insan]

Hi Mills,

Welcome to the forum. Nice to see scientific researchers like you in this forum.

In short, I think this school could improve the situation on your island if the status quo continues, if the island is reunified in a bizonal state, or if permanent partition were to occur - any of the three ways. There is no need for kids to grow in separate schools that lie just a few meters across the bizonal line from each other.

I agree that it could help to improve the situation in Cyprus in all cases you mentioned above... but the question here; in my opinion is could it help to improve the view point, political stance and antagonist feelings of both sides extreme nationalists who obviously haven't changed their attitudes regarding the solution of Cyprus problem. Perhaps, you should know that it all started with Enosis idea which was based on people's self-determination right when Cyprus was under British Rule as a crown colony. TCs opposed this idea and as a consequence of impetuous opposition between two communities leading elite and other factors; such as cold war, Nato enlargement etc. of the rapidly changing world led Cyprus into a bloody intercommunal strife...

TCs had two options to choose:

1- To submit Enosists and bear the pains of its consequences.

2- To struggle/Fight against the Enosists and call Turkey and international community to give support for their struggle.


They chose the second.


On the other hand Turkey also had two options to chose:

1- To accept the Enosis movement as GCs self-determination struggle and then convinc the TCs to accept the minority rights.

2- To retaliate Enosis movement with Taksim movement.


She chose the second.


Why did Turkey choose the second? To protect TCs, secure her south coasts and have regional control over medterannean.


These are all well known facts. The question is do GCs, Greece, EU, US and non-alligned countries accept those 3 demands of Turkey in mediterannean region?

It seems to me that apart from Hellen's ruling elite all other countries approve Turkey's intentions in the region...

Why Hellen world don't agree with the rest of the world? Because, if Cyprus has become a full Hellen controlled Island; most probably the Greece will become the primary Ally of Nato and all other Nato countries which many of the are also EU members. Obviously, this means a stronger Hellen force around Turkey and a weaker Turkey in the region; which is something Turkey doesn't wish to face with because of her interests in Agean, mediterannean, middle east and far east regions.


Retrospectively speaking; in my opinion the strife of the world powers in our region will continue until the third world war break out. The passion of getting more, once again will cause them to lose much more than what they have expected to gain as it is proven by two previous world wars.

[Alexandros Lordos]

Hmm, interesting idea Mills, I always took for granted that the education of the two communities would always be in separate schools - but you are right, there is no need for this separation to be absolute, either before or after a solution.

While most parents would opt for a single-community school, there would be many who would choose to send their children to a bicommunal school. I would, too, if the curriculum was such as to ensure that they would also learn about greek culture and civilisation, not just "international values of co-operation", though these of course are welcome too.

Through reading the Greek Philosophers I've learnt to think, and through reading Greek History I've learnt to see life as a challenge. Certainly, I would wish for my children to also have the same opportunity in their education ...

[turkcyp]

Dear Mills,

You probably have realized what is the problem in Cyprus. Every single idea that has been offered in the last 30 years that can be utilized to bring TCs and GCs together, and increase understanding of each others beliefs, fears, motivations, etc. etc. have been used by politicians and communities that support those politicians to advance their own political agenda.

This mentality was used to be very common in TC side, all this time but has actually subsided recently in the last 3 years. ( and there is no guarantee that it will not erect itself again in the future) And when it subsided it became obvious that GCs was employing the same mentality all these years. Especially, it became quite apparent in the last 3 years.

Here you are proposing something, that even myself have thought about ( but I was thinking something like a UN University in Cyprus, administered and financed wholly by UN) with no political agenda in your mind but some people are using this to advance their own political agenda. Questions like which flag the school is going to have, which sides laws are going to be applied in the school, etc. etc. are always employed by both sides to advance their political agenda, whereas the sole aim of school is to give good education to students in a joint and mixed environment so that they can grow to be adults not seeing each other as enemy but starting to apply basic cornerstone of any peaceful living which is EMPATHY.

I am all for your idea without any strings attached. Furthermore, I propose that the language in the school should be neither Greek, no Turkish but English, there should not be a history lesson about Cyprus. The only history may be world history. When it comes to lectures in Geography, only things that did not intimidate both sides should be taught. There is no need for a flag at school, nor there is any need of any kind of anthem, or “pledge of alliance” to any community.

Have a great day, and hope you achieve your idea,

[magikthrill]

turkcyp,

It was me who asked the questions of flag and history, not Mills.

Yes, if the school would be solely UN administered then a flag would not be required. Of course, the Cypriot flag was designed independently of any other flag, whereas the TC flag is a clear replica of the Turkish flag.

Also, you mention no Cypriot history should be taught. Of course TCs not think it's beneficial since TC history starts about 2000 years after GC.

As for your language concern, I believe that English should be the primary languge (actually I'd prefer if it were French so as both communities can distance themselves from the horrendous effect the UK has had on CYprus) but both Greek and Turkish should be mandatory for TCs and GCs respectively.