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9/11, what really happened?

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Do you think the US administration had foreknowledge of the 9/11 attacks?

yes
17
68%
no
8
32%
 
Total votes : 25

Postby Eliko » Sun Dec 31, 2006 1:21 pm

miltiades, thank you for your response, I fully appreciate your dislike for some of the atrocities that are now a daily occurrence, I am sure that the suicidal attacks are abhorrent to all of us in the western cultures and we do sympathise with the bereaved since we do value the sanctity of family life. However, what we must try to come to terms with is the reason for such actions, we can only view the circumstances from our own perspective, we are the citizens of democratic nations, we have been taught to think democratically and conduct ourselves in such a fashion, our general opinions convince us that we are right in following the leadership of our governments. Since the events of 9/11 however, much has been revealed as to what lengths our leaders are prepared to go in order to export our ideals to other nations. Due to the general misconduct of our society, others have come to view us disdainfully, they do not wish to emulate our society or adopt our principles and when you observe some of the decadence prevailing in our countries today, quite frankly, I don't blame them. The issue we are now discussing stems from the 9/11 attacks, there is much to indicate that the whole scenario could have been stage-managed, there are precedents (recently highlighted) and there are numerous documentaries available on those subjects. I consider it a duty to consider the evidence presented before forming an opinion, having done so, I do believe that we of the West have much to answer for when the issues of the East are discussed, I am truly sorry for all the suffering of innocent people, let us all try to understand the root causes of this suffering. :?: :?: :?: :?: :?:
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Re: 9/11, what really happened?

Postby GorillaGal » Sun Dec 31, 2006 4:22 pm

Kikapu wrote:
bg_turk wrote:[On July 28 1945 a B-25 bomber crashed into the Empire State building and exploded inside it. The building did not collapse, did not have to be demolished, and still stands today. .


Yes, a B-25 did crash into the Empire State Building and caused very little damage. The building was also the first "skyscraper" and was built like a fortress and the B-25 was a much smaller and slower plane, than the B-767. As a result of that crash, when the Twin Towers were built, they took into their calculations to withstand a Jetliner crashing into them. Boeing 707 was the largest jet at the time, so they used that. However, it was only calculated as an "accidental crash" as suppose to "deliberate crash".

"Accidental crash" was to accure during landing or take off, with speeds around 200 MPH and not at 500 MPH by the Boeing 767, which also were heavier than the B-707. Speed and Mass can do a lot of damage, if used properly.


i think it needs to be pointed out that the Titanic was considered unsinkable.
human error.
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Re: 9/11, what really happened?

Postby G.Man » Sun Dec 31, 2006 4:57 pm

Kikapu wrote:Yes, a B-25 did crash into the Empire State Building and caused very little damage. The building was also the first "skyscraper" and was built like a fortress and the B-25 was a much smaller and slower plane, than the B-767. As a result of that crash, when the Twin Towers were built, they took into their calculations to withstand a Jetliner crashing into them. Boeing 707 was the largest jet at the time, so they used that. However, it was only calculated as an "accidental crash" as suppose to "deliberate crash".

"Accidental crash" was to occur during landing or take off, with speeds around 200 MPH and not at 500 MPH by the Boeing 767, which also were heavier than the B-707. Speed and Mass can do a lot of damage, if used properly.


The 707 cruising speed was 600mph, and the force of impact goes up with the square of velocity...

The towers were designed to withstand the impact of a max speed, fully fueled 707, which is a FAR greater force of impact, and far more fuel than the 767-200's that actually hit were carrying...

Like I said before, I don't think the attacks were staged by the US govt, I think someone is missing something in their investigations, some kind of chemical reaction that came about as a result of the heat, vast quantities of alluminium and magnesium from the aircraft, and maybe even parts of the tower itself... But here is no doubt in my mind that the investigation has not revealed an acceptable explanation of why the towes, in particular wtc7 actually collapsed when no other teel farmed skyscrapers in the world have collapsed as a result of fire, even those made at the turn of the century!

As for titanic, it was always a rediculous claim, not founded on science, but ego of the designers...

And I still think the US govt knew about potential attacks on the US by Aircraft before they happened, which was the original poll question...
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Re: 9/11, what really happened?

Postby Kikapu » Sun Dec 31, 2006 5:23 pm

G.Man wrote:The 707 cruising speed was 600mph, and the force of impact goes up with the square of velocity...

The towers were designed to withstand the impact of a max speed, fully fueled 707, which is a FAR greater force of impact, and far more fuel than the 767-200's that actually hit were carrying.....


G.Man,

May I ask where you got the information, that the Towers were built to stand the full speed of a Boeing 707 at 600MPH, because if that was the case, the designers of the Twin Towers, did a poor job. Realistically, there was never going to be a Jetliner flying at that rate of speed, at such low altitudes over New York. More plausable would have been an accident, during landing and take of at JFK or Newark, in New Jersey.

I'm sure the B-707 did carry more fuel than B-767, because they were really "Gas Guzlers", but the overall size and takeoff weight were not greater than a B-767. At best, they were the same with the early edition of the B-767.
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Postby G.Man » Sun Dec 31, 2006 6:18 pm

http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/JOM/01 ... -0112.html

The WTC is a highly redundant structure, unlike an aircraft which crumples like a beer can...

As I say, its not a conspiracy, but the real cuase has not been discovered IMHO

:(
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Postby Leonidas » Sun Dec 31, 2006 6:32 pm

As usual most of you people NEVER fail to amaze me with your "conspiracy" theories.

Maybe it would have been a better world if we did not throw the Atomic bomb and let the world be run by Hitler and his friends.

Maybe we should have waited till a mad man like Sadam did the same.

The extremist MUST be stopped just like Hitler was.

As far as the United Nations is concerned. Look at what they managed to NOT accomplish in Cyprus since 1974.

Why would the USA rely on those morons who make decisions based on their OWN gain? Russia and the nuclear support to Iran, France and their own gains with the fallen dictator in Iraq and and and………………………………..

And yes people. Our Greek Cypriot government messed up before 1974. Especially when they where making deals with Mother Russia and the eastern block countries. ALL of which where enemies of the USA during the cold war. Why should we expect them to support us in ANY way???

God bless the USA because if it wasn't for us helping out, the world would be much worse than it is now.

PS. I have not posted here for a long time and I do not plan to reply to anyone's remarks on my post.
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Postby Kikapu » Sun Dec 31, 2006 6:38 pm

Leonidas wrote:The extremist MUST be stopped just like Hitler was.


I agree, lets stop the "Born again Idiot" Bush and his NeoCon friends.
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Postby miltiades » Sun Dec 31, 2006 8:29 pm

Elco wrote:

""I am truly sorry for all the suffering of innocent people, let us all try to understand the root causes of this suffering"""

The root cause is God , you must know that the more religious a nation is the more likely the people of this nation are suffering. Show me one Nation where God is prevalent and I will show you a nation in conflict.
The West is not perfect by any stretch of the imagination , neither Democracy is perfect , but the alternative does not bear thinking. People of the third world have invaded the West in search of quality life. They are mostly peasants , uneducated and God fearing people = backward thinking individuals. Lets hope their children will learn something and that they will succeed in removing the heavy religious constraints that have been put up on them.

I wonder how many Iraqis would remain in Iraq if an opportunity was presented to them to live in America. I wonder .
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Postby Eliko » Sun Dec 31, 2006 11:30 pm

miltiades, Saddam Hussein depicted George Bush as 'The Great Satan' he compounded that statement by adding that the majority of Westerners are 'Godless', you have indicated that you belong in that category and you have my sympathy, do you not know that the concept of a God is the only hope millions of people cling to ? SHAME on you for publishing such a comment on this forum, regardless of my own feelings I would never countenance such a comment, ordinary people will be gravely insulted by your contention that they are backward thinking because of their religious beliefs, most of the 'peasants' I have met on my world travels have exhibited a quality which transcends education, they have an affinity with their surroundings and a great respect for themselves and those associated with them, you can hardly blame them for seeking 'refuge' where there is less conflict, particularly if the chosen harbour is responsible for their dispersal, I think they face enough problems having been driven from their homeland without the added bonus of racial insults and religious discrimination. Do not turn your back on the
creator miltiades, you may have need of such comfort yourself, sooner rather than later methinks. :( :( :( :( :(
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Postby GorillaGal » Sun Dec 31, 2006 11:39 pm

i am sorry eliko, i agree with militiades comment as i understand it. most wars have been fought in god's name, which is stupidly ironic. god is love and yet we kill over it, and the people that suffer the most are the innocent lower classes, or "peasants" as you refer to them.
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