Cyprus-Forum.com

[boulio]

I dont know why people keep posting this about land and titles in the north,the EU HAS ALREADY ruled on the Louizou case which sets precedent for all properties in the north.the minute the ehrc recognized louzou's ownership of the property with its pre-1974 deeds in the north the case in closed.if the ehrc recognizes the trnc commitee for the property issues(which it will not,since it dosent recognize the trnc)then thats a different story.however the turks and brits and whoever purchases in the north without a solution is setting them selves up for a world of hurt.

[turkcyp]

,the EU HAS ALREADY ruled on the Louizou case which sets precedent for all properties in the north.

You did not say anything I don't agree with except this. The only thing different than what it is today would be caused by either ECHR reversing its decision and accepting TRNC property commision as a local remedy, or a political solution on the island.

However, I must add one thing. You have said EU has already settled this issue. ECHR has got nothing to do with EU. Just wanted to clarify that.

And also, one more thing to watch for is the UK court rulling about enforcing the court decision in south Cyprus in UK. There are some legal arguments why that decision can not be enforced in UK (albeit their strength is debatable) so we will see. If UK fails to enforce teh recent court decision then thr RoC can take things to EU courts at that point. EU has not ruled on property cases yet. And even at that point EU courts can side woth UK courts about the property case.

This has been again a very long post. (Typical of me I guess ) But simply all I wanted to point out that teh EU has got nothing to dod with ECHR, and its workings. Completley seperate institutions.

Have a great day

[boulio]

im sorry i meant to post ehrc

[-mikkie2-]

Turkcyp,

You are correct regarding the status of the ECHR. It is part of the Council of Europe I believe.

The rulings of this court are binding and as such Turkey has to abide by them. Turkey has already compensated Loizidou for the loss of use of her property. The remaining part of the ruling, that of getting access and to be able to peacefully enjoy her property in Kerynia, is due for enforcement this year. The question is, will Turkey allow her to do that!

[magikthrill]

I am kind of confused.

Did Loizidou get her land compensated with her in return givng up her rights to it or did she receive compensation for the decades of not being able to live on it and she still has rights to it?

Do you guys understand my question?

[turkcyp]

My personal opinion on the matter,

By making the property issue a legal issue rather than a political issue, Greek side will be losing in the long run. Short term gains like Louzidiou case serves only to the Louzidiou, not the GC society at all.

For example, take the Oram's case. There are already legal objections why the court case in south can not be enforced in UK. I do not want to comment on the strenth of those legal precedents but it may very well be the case that in the UK courts it will be again one more time affirmed that north Cyprus has its own seperate legal system that is to be respected.

Especially if these cases like Orams, Louzidiour and otehr keep on pilling up on ECHR, and on UK courts than all these courts will simply one day say go and look for your rights in the legal system established in north. And this hardly serves the GCs purpose in the long run. (Like making TRNC another Taiwan does not serve teh RoC political agenda).

That is what I mean by saying "individual short terms gains vs. community long term losses". The risk lies at the fact that agitating the outsiders with your local problems makes a very risky game of one day making TRNC de-facto goverment and may be in the very very long run making it a legal goverment as well.

That is my opinion and should be respected (not necessarily accepted,)

[boulio]

very well be the case that in the UK courts it will be again one more time affirmed that north Cyprus has its own seperate legal system that is to be respected.

on more time,when if i may ask was the first time?

[turkcyp]

I am kind of confused.

Did Loizidou get her land compensated with her in return givng up her rights to it or did she receive compensation for the decades of not being able to live on it and she still has rights to it?

Do you guys understand my question?

Louizidou case involves two parts,

One is financial compensation relating loss of use foe teh last 30 years. and second as restoration of her property rights, (as letting her use her property as she deems).

The first part of the rulling is implemented, and the second part is not yet. There are some rumours in the political circles in the north that they can even use Louzidou case to their benefit. Meaning they will give the ownership back to Louzidiou, so she can come back and claim their property as she deems. Of course this indirectly implies that Louzidou recognizes TRNC as a legit goverment and legal party, which hardly I believe is what she wants.

What Louzidou wanted to proove that north was under occupation by Turkey, and that is why Turkey lost the court case. But there is nothing that stops north and Turkey from implementing the rulings of the court case.

In fact if north gives Louzidou her property back, and concurrently all the refuges their property back, then what may happen in the north is the continuation of current political, legal and constitutional structure in north with lots of lots GC inhabitants. And most probably in time TRNC will have to give citizenship to them as well. (Far fetched? May be, but I have seen more weirder things turning into reality in the world.)

Alice in Wonderland,

Not: The Louzidou property is in shambles right now. (Kyrenia is small place and everybody now knows which one is famous Louzidou property ). The last thing I know was that it was inhabited by a bunch of illegal mainland Turks as a hostel but I do not know if it is still currently occupied. I do not know who runs it or who is the de-facto owner. It has a very good location in the Kyrenia though, just in the middle of the city (doesn't have sea access or anything but it is very central)

[turkcyp]

on more time,when if i may ask was the first time?

I can not remember exactly, but I think there was case brought to a tourism company in north and ultimateky it has been turned from Court of Appeals in UK.

Also I think Borther has openede a topic about this, by posting an article. I do not know who wrote the article but you can find more information on that topic, I believe.

I think the reasoning goes something like this,
"TRNC not being a legally accepted entity has no bearings on whether there is an existing local legal system in TRNC. And thus exitsing local legal system should be respected even though the goverment that set up the legal system is not recognized by the rest of the world."

I think it has something to do with "not recognititon of a country does not immediately says that ist legal system is illegal."

But you can do more search about this issue if you read that topic.

Have a good day,

[boulio]

Of course this indirectly implies that Louzidou recognizes TRNC as a legit goverment and legal party, which hardly I believe is what she wants.

no if she sued the trnc that would mean she recognizes them,something like allowing ships to sail into your ports