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Turkey up to her old tricks again?

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby insan » Fri Jan 21, 2005 8:47 pm

insan, before you start rattleying about the megali idea and greek expansionism,the map is the not the megali idea but the actual treaty of serves,notice rhodes is not red either since it was not allocated to italy.so if your going to write propaganda please make sure you have some cliams at least right.



The name of the map I posted is "megali hellas" and different than the map you posted. In the map I posted Istanbul(Constantinople) is included as coloured red lines(Plebiscite areas). Treaty of serves almost gave Greece what they dream about "megali idea".



Origins of the Megale Idea
Greek nationalism has the "Megale Idea," the counterpart of Serbia's "Nacertanije." Literally translated as the "great idea" or "grand idea," the Megale Idea implies the goal of reestablishing a Greek state as a homeland for all the Greeks of the Mediterranean and Balkan world. Such a Greece would be territorially larger than the Greek state of today, but would be smaller than the Greek world of classical times, which extended west to the coast of Sicily, northeast into the Black Sea, and south to Egypt. Alexander the Great -- a figure of classical Greek history and legend exploited by competing modern-day politicians -- spread the influence of Hellenism even wider, into Africa and Asia. The Eastern half of the Roman Empire became solidly Greek as Byzantium, and sustained Greek culture in the Balkans and Asia Minor.

One of the unsettled aspects of the Megale Idea and the goals of Greek nationalism has been uncertainty about what is properly considered Greek, and why. In the nineteenth century, religious affiliation with the Greek Orthodox church was often confused with ethnic affiliation: the Bulgarians, for example, worked for many years to secure a separate Bulgarian Exarchate Church for this reason. Extreme Greek territorial claims resulted when the geography of classical Greece was applied to modern maps. The result has been conflict with Albania over Epirus, with Serbia and Bulgaria over Macedonia, and with Turkey over Istanbul (Constantinople), the western coast of Anatolia and islands from the Aegean to Cyprus.



Conclusion
The legacy of the Megale Idea in the 1920s and 1930s became a destructive cycle of political rivalry and dictatorships. Instead of seeking compromise and solving national problems, the two sides expended their energy attacking each other. We will return to this in a later lecture, but it is safe to say that the immediate interests of the Greek nation were sacrificed in the service of an illusory Greek nation that might have been, based on the Megale Idea. This fundamental flaw in Greek politics continues as an influence even today: the Megale Idea and aggressive nationalism reappear whenever one side or another needs a rallying point at times of crisis. Both the right-wing Colonels of the 1970s and their leftist successors have employed nationalism this way, and the ongoing Cyprus crisis is fueled by it. After generations of population exchanges, the rationale for Greek irredentism has dwindled but its power has not.



http://www.lib.msu.edu/sowards/balkan/lect14.htm


My conclusion: There was one mistake with what I said in my previous post: The man in the picture of the "megali hellas" map is not Metaxas but Venizelos.


Ps: Bulio, can you obtain us a map of megali idea? I really wonder what's the difference. Eh? A little? Ok. ;)
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Postby insan » Fri Jan 21, 2005 8:48 pm

Image


Heart of the megali idea. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Postby boulio » Fri Jan 21, 2005 8:59 pm

threaty of serves,which by the way mathces your make indetically,the zones of the straits would be internationilized not greek:

http://www.atlas-historique.net/1914-19 ... evres.html
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Postby boulio » Fri Jan 21, 2005 9:19 pm

very difficult to find a subjective map of megali idea however it would definetly include the western third of asia minor,pontus,cyprus and the southern third of albania,however this was over 100 year old idea that died on the shores of smyrna after the catastrophe and population exchange.my hole point to this discusion though was that the map you are showing is the mao of the treaty of serves and not megali idea.Venizlos was never one to use the phrase i believe of megali idea but of greece of 5 seas and two continents when describing his idea of greece.and for a very brief period he had accomplished it.
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Postby insan » Fri Jan 21, 2005 9:30 pm

megali idea however it would definetly include the western third of asia minor,pontus,cyprus and the southern third of albania,however this was over 100 year old idea that died on the shores of smyrna after the catastrophe and population exchange



Boulio, however in every nationalist Hellas website I've visited so far, almost all of them agree that with the treaty of Sevres, Megali Idea would have almost come true.


And there are so many political analysts who claim:

Both the right-wing Colonels of the 1970s and their leftist successors have employed nationalism this way, and the ongoing Cyprus crisis is fueled by it. After generations of population exchanges, the rationale for Greek irredentism has dwindled but its power has not.



And as a TC I agree with them. But as a Greek you don't agree with us.
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Postby boulio » Fri Jan 21, 2005 9:40 pm

i dont think you can classify the greek psyche that some twisted colonels thought of in the 1970's,greeks after 2 world wars,one civil war and the asia minor catastrophe were looking for a better life for them and there children.i dont think they were thinking of conquering asia minor.i cant classify all t/c with what dektash is thinking can i?as for greek nationalist they make up what 1.5-3% percent of greeks(according to the last elections),does that mean that all greeks dream of the megali idea absolutly not.
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Postby insan » Fri Jan 21, 2005 9:56 pm

does that mean that all greeks dream of the megali idea absolutly not.


I emphasized what you said in my previous posts and even everytime when I have spoken about Hellenic Nationalism. ;)


Ps: So why did you ask whether TCs abandoned Taksim idea or not? Ain't it obvious to you that majority of TCs voted in favour of Annan Plan that they strongly believed was a "balanced" plan with temporary restrictions would have reunited Cyprus if majority of GCs have said yes. Now majority of TCs got the impression that majority of GCs don't want to consider TCs as a "politically equal" partner of united Cyprus.
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Postby boulio » Fri Jan 21, 2005 10:01 pm

I emphasized what you said in my previous posts and even everytime when I have spoken about Hellenic Nationalism.

i lost you here?


Ps: So why did you ask whether TCs abandoned Taksim idea or not? Ain't it obvious to you that majority of TCs voted in favour of Annan Plan that they strongly believed was a "balanced" plan with temporary restrictions would have reunited Cyprus if majority of GCs have said yes. Now majority of TCs got the impression that majority of GCs don't want to consider TCs as a "politically equal" partner of united Cyprus.

i think you in the wrong thread od discusion.
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