Cyprus-Forum.com

[Simon]

And you have just proved my point.

[Viewpoint]

And you have just proved my point.

Could you share that point with us?

[LENA]

Lena,

OK, TCs have given you interviews, but that doesn't really say a lot does it? If they even refused to talk to you because you were GC, I would have found that shocking and extremely racist. So really this does not prove much or say anything. You believe the young will change the situation, I am not so sure. I believe it is actually the young TCs that are more in favour of the 'TRNC' and more nationalistic than the old, because many of them are Turkish settlers. You believe that the new generation will change the percentages, well, I have not seen any research that may suggest this; in fact I have heard the opposite. In your post, you seem to really engage with wishful thinking in its most extreme form; in the sense that you have convinced yourself that somehow, the new generation is going to come and sweep all our problems away. The reality, in my opinion, will be somewhat different. Where are the protests of the new generation, with regard to the huge 'TRNC' flag, for example? I really cannot see what basis your optimism is founded upon.

I believe that if a solution does not arrive soon, the 'TRNC' will be incrementally promoted into a fully viable state within 10-15 years. The current situation cannot last forever.

I was simply asking the question, which of the 4 options will GCs choose? Simply waiting, as you say, hoping for a miracle, could easily cost us everything. However, I will go along with the majority's will.

Simon what impressed me is not only that they were willing to give me interviews but what they told me to those interviews…anyway…reading this forum I thought that it was going to be hell for me trying to find TC interviewees and documents about the TC “government” and financial information and educational information. Well you can not imagine how much help those people offered me.

You said that you heart the opposite…well as far as I saw heart and found out is the new generation that will make the changes, with the help of the elder of course. The people that they survive through those days have too much pain inside them to accept anything else apart from what existed then. Well the new generation is fairer than their parents and grandparents. You might call me extremely optimistic but I don’t believe the new generation will just come and change everything from one day to the other. That’s why I am telling that we will need time…years for that. But if we just stay there and wait nothing will happen. We have to act. I am not expecting any miracles.

You ask me to protest about the flag. Simon…do you really think that this is the most important thing right now? Is this how we will come to a solution? Don’t make me laugh! I thought that I was the young year and the dreamer…not you!

Well don’t tell me that you are a sheep. You will go with the majority? Simon…I ask your opinion. I ask you to choose one of your so same options you put up there . . . and you told me that you will go with the majority? Nice answer my dear. Keep your head up like that and we will save our country…! Thank God that GC are the majority not the TC because we was going to end up in the hand of Turkey.

[Simon]

Lena, I did not ask you to protest about the flag. I am talking about this new generation of TCs you were referring to, why are they not protesting about the flag, when this flag is a clear symbol of division? It is put up on that mountain with the intention of provoking GCs. I know it is not the most important thing, I was just using this as an example, as I stated earlier. It is these symbolic protests however, that would convince me as a GC, that TCs want to reunite and are not interested in being a Turkish puppet state. If you want another example, why are the new generation of TCs not protesting about the occupation in general? Or the huge numbers of Turkish troops? etc etc. Why are the new generation not affecting the polls? Why are there still more in favour of partition with this new generation coming through? I shall say again, I do not see any basis for your enthusiasm or optimism. All I see is the clear message of the Polls today.

I said I would go with the majority, not because I am a sheep, but because I do not have a very strong inclination for any of the options. If you forced me to choose one, then I would suggest that GCs would have to start considering partition as an option, with as much of our land back as possible. The reason I suggest this, is not because I prefer this, but because of the TC attitude, which is becoming more intransigent, not less. They do not favour any solution that incorporates true reunification, and never have. This 'new generation' you refer to are not in my opinion going to change this, or at least, I have not seen any evidence whatsoever that they will change this.

[shahmaran]

Whatever Simon, if you were on this side you would not want unification either, i guarantee you, we don't want to be a puppet state, but we don't want to be assimilated into this Greek culture either!

[Simon]

Shah, listen to Bir, a TC like you. Maybe you will learn something. There are many ways of safeguarding TCs identity; partition or an Annan-style partition is the worst of these ways. Remember, EOKA nor the Junta exist today and have not existed for a long time! These excuses are no longer valid!

[LENA]

Lena, I did not ask you to protest about the flag. I am talking about this new generation of TCs you were referring to, why are they not protesting about the flag, when this flag is a clear symbol of division? It is put up on that mountain with the intention of provoking GCs. I know it is not the most important thing, I was just using this as an example, as I stated earlier. It is these symbolic protests however, that would convince me as a GC, that TCs want to reunite and are not interested in being a Turkish puppet state. If you want another example, why are the new generation of TCs not protesting about the occupation in general? Or the huge numbers of Turkish troops? etc etc. Why are the new generation not affecting the polls? Why are there still more in favour of partition with this new generation coming through? I shall say again, I do not see any basis for your enthusiasm or optimism. All I see is the clear message of the Polls today.

I said I would go with the majority, not because I am a sheep, but because I do not have a very strong inclination for any of the options. If you forced me to choose one, then I would suggest that GCs would have to start considering partition as an option, with as much of our land back as possible. The reason I suggest this, is not because I prefer this, but because of the TC attitude, which is becoming more intransigent, not less. They do not favour any solution that incorporates true reunification, and never have. This 'new generation' you refer to are not in my opinion going to change this, or at least, I have not seen any evidence whatsoever that they will change this.

Ok I can see a point on your first point…that TC doesn’t protest much or doesn’t act that much …at least as far as I know. I am sorry but I don’t know what is going on there. I told you what I have seen and what I heart. I share with you my experience. I agree that they most of them want recognition as my frogy friend here-Shah- but I know that there is a minority that they want unification. I was referred to those. Sometimes numbers change according to who you ask…I don’t think that those polls go through every single TC from all ages and ask them those questions.

What I don’t agree with you is your second paragraph. No my dear Simon … I am not a sheep, I dont allow to my self to sit there and wait for a solution whatever that will be and finally I am not going to negotiate how much land they will get and how much land we will get.

But I respect your opinion…is your…and you can do whatever you want. I will keep on with what I am doing and if you want popcorn and more comfortable couch let me know!!!

[Simon]

Lena, I think you misunderstand me; I was not calling you a sheep. I was merely stating that I am not a sheep, because you had said earlier "Well don’t tell me that you are a sheep."

I hope your optimism proves correct, but unfortunately, I cannot see it happening, with the evidence I have in front of me.

[shahmaran]

Shah, listen to Bir, a TC like you. Maybe you will learn something. There are many ways of safeguarding TCs identity; partition or an Annan-style partition is the worst of these ways. Remember, EOKA nor the Junta exist today and have not existed for a long time! These excuses are no longer valid!

To be honest Simon, i have been listening to Bir for a long time, and although we are both TC we are nothing a like and he has all my respect, but for someone who actually lives in Cyprus, sadly i have to say, no matter what safeguards can be put forward, i just do not trust the GC people (as a whole) nor the government, and i don't really want to be put in a position where i have to either, end of! I have heard plenty of horror stories from the days of the wonderful "unified Cyprus"...

If we join, no one will even remember that we ever existed, we will just be this minority on a Greek island, and it is a VERY Greek island...

So basically I am not giving up my ethnicity because some of you "miss your houses", i have not taken any Greek property and i don't want to be treated like i have either, so find some other solution in regard of your properties and leave us the fuck alone!

[shahmaran]

Lena, I think you misunderstand me

Dont worry Simon, she tends to do that a LOT!!