Cyprus-Forum.com

[pantelis]

Insan,
These are for you, you music lover!

http://www.kyprios.com/home.html

http://www.sonymusic.ca/PeaceSongs/

[brother]

I think whatever will happen was agreed upon long before the referandum, what i cannot say but believe when i say it is all pre-agreed like the intervention was in 1974.

[insan]

you know very well that the Turkish "deep state" would welcome a Greek/Cypriot veto on Turkey's accession. They know that as Turkey starts getting with her EU "road map", these privileged groups would start loosing power and support by the Turkish public opinion.

This is true, Pantelis. I agree with you.

Tassos may be old, but he is not stupid. Neither is Erdogan. A deadlock would be detrimental both. Sudden and radical "moves" would turn the table upside down and the "chess" game would be OVER for all, except the "status quo" supporters. With such a scenario, the common people would lose once again!

I agree but I have a feeling inside that Tassos's team soon will play for all or %82. He, his team, most of the Hellenic political groups directly or indirectly back him; don't support the idea "political equality", a bi-zonal, bi-communal federation with temporary restrictions and Turkish guarantorship. Even if Tassos personally believe in this(He does not too); vast majority of Hellenic world don't support this idea. A leader like Tassos does not go against the will of vast majority of Hellenes. The Hellenes who have gone out of the "traditional" line of Hellene's known common Cyprus policy, all have been declared paid traitors; even attacked with grenades by extremists. There's no need for delluding ourselves. It is clear to me that Tassos together with his backers are playing for all or %82; i.e A Hellenic Cyprus or partition....

You know by now that no GC or G group supports the status quo. On the other hand, there are Turkish and TC groups who not only support the status quo, but believe that the entire island should "return" to Ottoman hands.

In my opinion, as I stated above; there are groups of Hellenes who play for all or %82 and there are groups of Turks who play for politically equal community in a bi-zonal, bi-communal federation or getting %whatever land percentegly belongs to them for a seperate state.

Don't you think that it is strange situation, to have on the one hand, the prime ministers of Greece and Turkey celebrating weddings together and on the other hand, the militaries of the two countries provoke each other with war "games".

In my opinion, those are not the "war games" but a kind of testing method of each side's sincerity and tolerance.

How many times did the Turkish ruling elite threaten to annex the occupied part of Cyprus and at the same time making attempts for "state" recognition?

It is true many times they attempted; all appeared as a consequence of a shocking event appeared on Greek side; such as s-300 missiles, PKK camps in South and Greece, Ocalan's Greek Cypriot passport etc...

One thing is clear to me. The "status quo" group still runs both Turkey and the occupied part of Cyprus. As long as they seat in or behind the negotiating chairs, they would guide the situation in a deadlock, in order to maintain their power and positions.

The status-quo group have a degree of influence upon decision making mechanisms and this is normal. Opposition groups have a degree of influence on decision making mechanisms in all countries. How much strong the opposition as much influence on decision mechanisms...

The Annan plan is a classic example. It's outcome was the desirable outcome of the "status quoers" (this is one of your own, “old” words).

"Old"? They are still statusquoers my friend. The incapable politicians and self-seeker politicians and their backing groups cannot be progressive. Those statusquoers desire partition but their incapability and self-interests prevent them to do something to achieve the partition(Two seperate States). Those statusquoers are only able to stay in power in so-called TRNC. A so-called state is the only place where they will be able to secure their illegal wealth and faked social status.

76% of the GCs are not in favor of the present situation, nor are the 24% who voted "yes" . Who won in the referenda? The 35% of the TCs who have voted "no" and the Turkish ruling elite, who sad behind them, in the negotiating chairs.

I think noone is in favour of the present situation that gives a scry uncertainity feeling to all groups of Cypriots. GC refugees are in a helpless hope to return, exchange, sell, rent their properties and have the freedom of movement in their homeland. They don't know when and ever they will be able to... TC refugees are helplessly in hope of exchanging their properties to get the title of ownership of the GC properties they occupy. They don't know when and ever will be able to... Settlers are helplessly in hope of staying in Cyprus with help and support of the others. They don't know when and ever will be able to... Plunderers of North are in fear of losing their illegal wealth and fake social status. They don't know until when when and ever will be able to keep their illegal wealth and fake social status. Within all of those groups of Cypriots, there are groups of Cypriots who supports all(so-called real federation) or otherwise %82(Partition). There are groups of Cypriots who supports political equality in a bi-communal, bi-zonal federation or otherwise partition. There are groups of Cypriots who prefer status-quo in order to maintain their fake social status and secure their illegal wealth.

I understand and share your frustration. I have told you this, many times. The solution has to come directly from the common people, yavash yavash, with interaction, communication and cooperation. The politicians cannot do it, without the pressure by, and the fear of the public opinion. The politicians stay in power, at least in the democratic societies, after they won the public opinion, the votes.

Yes, my friend. I know you have told this many times before. And MicAtCyp told us these many times before.[Re MicAtCyp, where have you been re adelfe ]

I agree that the solution should come from people of Cyprus and it will take time to build genuine, sincere relations in all areas of life but under the circumstances there are more things that slowly slowly drag us towards a permenant division than the things that slowly slowly unite us towards a bi-communal, bi-zonal federation based upon political equality of two communities.

The more you try to understand the mentality of the politicians, domestic and foreign, the more you try to analyze what they said and did, the more you become a victim of their game ploys and the more you distance yourself from a viable solution.

I completely agree with you at this point but nevertheless; there are politicians, there are "politicians" and there are x politicians, y politicians, z politicians etc. The fact is that the dominant political groups in Cyprus are either incapable to solve the problem or corrupt...

Speaking of politicians and votes, the TCs are having elections, again. What is your opinion of these elections. Do you think the status quo supporters will lose? Are they going to be as legitimate as the elections in Iraq?

In my opinion the power sharing won't change much... A part of Eroglu's votes may go to S Denktash and help him to get 1 or 2 MPs more. On the other hand, a part of Talat's votes may go to Akinci and help him to get 1 more MP. In the end, again Talat will from the coalition government with S Denktash and if Akinci wills, he will also join this coalition government.

In my opinion seats will be shared as follows:

CTP:17
UBP:17
DP:7
BDH:5
ÖDP:1
YP:1
BKP:1
TKP:1

Thanks for the music links, Pantelis. Who is that Kyprios band? I liked their music very much but couldn't find much info about them. Is it a Cyptiots band from Canada?

[-mikkie2-]

PKK camps in South and Greece,

I love this! Care to show ANY proof that there were such camps re Insan?

Cyprus is a tiny place and the southern part is open to all. I would be interested to know where they would hide such camps!

[brother]

Mikkie if there is smoke there is fire, an old saying and is it not strange the kurdish leader ocalan had a ROC passport.
The south is small like it or not but whiter than white it is not.
These camps would not be advertised and would be a goverment secret as officially it would be known as state sponsered terrorism like in 1960-1974 in cyprus.

[MelbGreko]

"Hellenes .. cordinated"

HeHeHe, that's funny!

Maybe with a German at the helm...

GREECE EURO 2004 CHAMPIONS!

[brother]

GREECE EURO 2004 CHAMPIONS! Done well, see if you can do it again.

[insan]

Do you wnat a better proof then the confirmation of Ocalan himself, mikkie?

On the second day of his trial on Tuesday, Ocalan confirmed Ankara's allegations that the PKK enjoyed considerable foreign support, particularly from Syria where Ocalan lived when he was not in the PKK camps in the Syrian controlled Bekaa valley or in Greece. He admitted that "they (the Syrians) didn't try to hinder our activities and some of our members did receive training in Greece." He also revealed that the PKK received considerable support from Iran, Libya and Cyprus

http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/1999/432/re5.htm


BTW, what does Mr Simerini, Terrorist Lover, GC mafia Lazaros do latterly? Did he help any other terrorists to get GC issued passports?

[insan]

Oddly enough, there are GCs and Greeks who even ignore the existence of clearly visible facts.

Worldwide coordination and the participation of all Hellenes in the efforts for the support of our National Issues, is a requirement for gaining even more influence at the decision making centers. The World Hellenic Community has managed to motivate the participation of not only elected Hellene members at various Parliaments of the world, but of foreign Members of Parliaments and Governmental Officials, to encourage progress and promote Hellenic National Issues.

" According to President, Andrew A. Athens, "One of our strategic goals in 2004-05 is to achieve a truly worldwide coherent voice on ethnic issues" .

[brother]

Half the gc population across the globe lead by people like piratis ignore the obvious, when it comes to cyprus and just coming out with the same dribble.