Cyprus-Forum.com

[Agios Amvrosios]

Will my family be allowed to return home to Agios Amvrosios and will we be able to participate in democratic functions like ALL other citizens?

[Agios Amvrosios]

The Property issue is the number one concern.

I think it is important that although most people consider the property issue the most important consideration, the Now dead and buried Annan Plan considered it insignificant.

Another issue is why didn't you put up two polls based on racial/ethnic division like the 2 referenda in the late but not great Annan Plan?

[Alexandros Lordos]

Will my family be allowed to return home to Agios Amvrosios and will we be able to participate in democratic functions like ALL other citizens?

Yes, according to the proposal put forward here, your family would be able to return to Agios Amvrosios, and enjoy extended political rights as Greek Cypriot residents of the northern state. Furthermore, your children's education will be the responsibility of the Federal Government, rather than of the Turkish Cypriot administration.

The only sacrifice you might have to make is that, in case it is impossible to take back your original home (e.g. because it was demolished and a hotel was built on it), then you will be entitled to a new home built for you in the same village.

[Alexandros Lordos]

So from what I understand after a certain amount of years anyone can buy any property they want, anyone can work wherever they want but the only thing that will be limited is the residency status of GCs in the TC state and TCs in the GC state?

Is this correct?

Yes, exactly. But even the residence limitation will be at such a high number, about 90.000 Greek Cypriots, that it will not be practically felt as a restriction.

When I was disucssin with my mother (a refugee) the other day about learning a foreign language she told me she would like to learn Italian and then I tell her ( sarcastically to annoy her) "Why don't you learn Turkish so you can understand what your passport says" And much to my surprise instead of her getting angry she told me " I wish I did know Turkish but they were all too stubborn to teach us" Just though I'd share that cuase I found int interesting.

Interesting ...

[Alexandros Lordos]

As for those who voted that the "legal status" aspect of this proposal needs further revising, could they comment further what exactly they did not like? (and what they propose in its place?)

[Alexandros Lordos]

Having read your proposal, I would agree with Insan that the area that needs more work is Education. The provisions you describe seem quite effective on paper, but a number of issues would probably arise in practice, in my opinion. How many schools will be integrated and in what areas? Who will attend these schools? Is there a provision for integrated schooling to be obligatory? Will there be enough GC students in the 'Northern' state (and vice versa) to sustain the viability of operating a 'cross-school'? Will such students (GCs in north and TCs in south) have to travel 50 kilometers every day to go to school, because they live in a far-off village, and too few such schools can be sustained?

OK, thanks for bringing these issues forward ...

Integrated schooling is certainly meant to be voluntary. Each parent will choose whether he prefers to send his kids to an integrated school or a mono-ethnic school. The idea is to have integrated schools in all major towns, with a heavier concentration of such schools in the cities which "border" both constituent states - Nicosia and Famagusta.

As for cross-state schools, well we won't be able to have one for each village, but it shouldn't be one every fifty miles either. This problem will be resolved the same way as it is currently resolved for agricultural-area schools ... Small primary schools will be available in most villages, while larger secondary schools will be shared between 3 or 4 neighboring villages.

Whether there will be enough students, will depend on how "attractive" relocation to the north can be made for Greek Cypriots. If they feel that they will have political rights, and live in an area where human rights and the rule of law are respected, without any Turkish troops to "watch over them", and if that place is called "the northern state" as opposed to "the Turkish Cypriot State" then I think many people will be lured by the prospect of return.

[magikthrill]

a few questions to get this forum going on:

Has anyone thought about the size of each constituent state?

to whom does famagusta go?

will there be a physical barrier separating each state?

what was ananas plan on the separation of the 2 states?

[michalis5354]

As for those who voted that the "legal status" aspect of this proposal needs further revising, could they comment further what exactly they did not like? (and what they propose in its place?)

I was supposed to vote for governance and then property but I chose legal statues by mistake so you can make the adjustment . By the way at this poll you can not choose 2 or more options!

[MicAtCyp]

So, my argument is, if we are going to remove this 33% restriction, then the whole "Federation" scheme begins to unravel and we might as well start talking about a bicommunal Unitary state, based on the 1960 constitution, with shared GC and TC control of the one central administration - a totally different solution proposal, though not an unthinkable one.

That's right Alexandre. I appreciate your whole effort to square the circle, but this Federation (or bizonal bicomunal Federation) or straightening up of the Anan Plan, is not a feasible thing without serious violations of basic human rights (mostly of GCs and to a lesser degree of TCs). It furthermore completely ignores the fact that we are now members of the EU, the EU constitution is above our local law, and the fact that even if 100 million people vote that a proven innocent man must die, their vote worths nothing more that 100 tons of garbage. I mean no single individuals’ human rights can be sacrificed even a million people vote for it. The only solution is a bicommunal Unitary state based on the 1960 constitution, like you very well said.

Wouldn't it be better to agree on partition with TCs keeping 18%?

My friend by the minute our side proposes partition the Cyprus problen IS FINISHED and the only thing left is to agree on the percentage.We will be lucky if in the end we even get Famagusta back.

That's the game Dekntash always tried to play. By the minute we just even say OK lets discuss it, we are on checkmate.

Besides there are economists who analysed everything and concluded that economically partition is worse that the worst solution. Also that it will lead to the complete eradication of the native TCs from Cyprus.

[Alexandros Lordos]

I was supposed to vote for governance and then property but I chose legal statues by mistake so you can make the adjustment . By the way at this poll you can not choose 2 or more options!

OK, so what are your concerns about governance? Is it "Political Equality", or something else?

As for not being able to vote for two poll options, yeah I know, that's a technical problem which can not be overcome in in "PhpBB-type" forums like this one ...