Cyprus-Forum.com

[Piratis]

I posted something similar some time ago, but here is a more refined version.

Why partition?

Because it is about time to call what we were negotiating with its name and stop hiding. If you believe that a true unification is possible in the near future, then you can discard this proposal all together.

A "standard" 18% - 82% partition is better for GCs than a disguised partition (e.g. Annan plan) and is better for the TCs that want to be independent and think that GCs want to dominate them and take away their rights.

The proposal:

TCs keep the 18% of land in the north. GCs (+ minorities) the 82% in the south.

It will be up to the TCs of how "ethnically clean" each state will be. All TCs will be given the option to take either a RoC citizenship or the TC country citizenship. For every TC that opts for the RoC citizenship, a GC will be given the TC citizenship. The minority of TCs in the south, will have the same rights as the minority of GCs in the north.

This way at least as many GC refugees will be able to return to their original homes, and all TCs will be able to live in their original homes if they choose to.

Settlers and Turkish army will be evacuated from the GC country, and the TC country can decide what they want to do with them by themselves. (if they way, they can bring more)

Why this is better for GCs:

1) At least as many refugees will return, most of them under GC admin
2) The GC state is bigger
3) No power sharing conflicts
4) No Turkish "guarantees"
5) Much better economy
6) No dysfactionalities
7) No security issues
8 ) Guaranteed compensation with equivalent properties for refugees that will not return

Why this is better for TCs:

1) They have the independent state they always wanted
2) No GC domination over them
3) They have the option to stay at their original homes
4) They can keep the settlers and bring even more
5) They can keep the Turkish troops and bring even more
6) They will be "peoples" with full self determination rights
7) They will know that no court decision will take away anything from what agreed
8 ) They will not have to deal with extremists like me

And when the TC country will enter the EU, the GC country and the TC country will be more united than any Annan plan would provide. (people will be free to live, work, buy properties etc, without any problems)

So if you decided that a true unification is not possible, then get rid of your taboos and realize why a "standard" partition (instead of a disguised one) is better for us, and for the TCs (those that don't trust us and trust Turkey instead).

[Alexandros Lordos]

It will be up to the TCs of how "ethnically clean" each state will be. All TCs will be given the option to take either a RoC citizenship or the TC country citizenship. For every TC that opts for the RoC citizenship, a GC will be given the TC citizenship. The minority of TCs in the south, will have the same rights as the minority of GCs in the north.

This way at least as many GC refugees will be able to return to their original homes, and all TCs will be able to live in their original homes if they choose to.

Piratis,

it wouldn't actually work out that way. No GC, none that I know at least, would be interested to become a Citizen of a pure Turkish State, with no rights beyond those of minority, amongst tens of thousands of settlers and amongst Turkish troops. So the "citizenship exchange system" that you propose is not meaningful.

Otherwise, yes, partition would serve the base instincts of both communities. We would get our simple majority rule, TCs would get their own purely Turkish State.

The only things we would have to sacrifice are the rights of refugees and the integrity of Cyprus for the comng generations.

[-mikkie2-]

The viablity of two states in Cyprus is a non starter.

This would lead to a greek state in the south which is large enough to susteain itself and the north actually becoming a part of Turkey.

It would be very difficult for a Turkish state to be economically viable in the first place.

For me partition is worst possible result. However, the TC politicians at this moment in time seem to prefer to have a solution that is effectively partition but with the economic benefits of a single state, paid for by the GC's!

[turkcyp]

[/quote]The viablity of two states in Cyprus is a non starter.

This would lead to a greek state in the south which is large enough to susteain itself and the north actually becoming a part of Turkey.

It would be very difficult for a Turkish state to be economically viable in the first place.

Bogus. The only reason TC state is not taking any foreign investment in the areas of tourism is the illegality and isolations. If the TC state legal either like Annan Plan or independent, there would be a boom in tourism investment in TC state.

Let’s face it this is an island and island economies best way of development is tourism. This is true both GC state and TC state. But if you are telling me that there is not enough tourist in Europe to sustain both GC state and TC state, I don’t know what to argue anymore.

For me partition is worst possible result. However, the TC politicians at this moment in time seem to prefer to have a solution that is effectively partition but with the economic benefits of a single state, paid for by the GC's!

So you are Piratis 2, I guess…

Anyway even this is better than what Piratis is offering us, minority rights.

We do not have self-determinations rights cause we are not people!!!! PUH!!!!

You should first understand what self-determination rights is then we can talk about. For you self-determination rights is the “right of secession”, which are hardly equal to the idea of self-determination.

You even fail to realize that separate municipalities which were called for in 1960 is a form of self-determination rights. You even fail to realize that the reason there is there was two separate referendums in Cyprus last summer, instead of one big one is another manifestation of self-determination rights.

Anyway, you guys have a great day,

[Piratis]

Turkcyp, your claims is exactly the reason why I propose what I propose.

So with the 18%-82% partition you get everything you ever asked for, except maybe for the amount of ground (if you could you would ask for the 95%), but you can't have everything your way, right?

[Piratis]

No GC, none that I know at least, would be interested to become a Citizen of a pure Turkish State, with no rights beyond those of minority, amongst tens of thousands of settlers and amongst Turkish troops. So the "citizenship exchange system" that you propose is not meaningful.

Alexandre, what you said is true, however what is also true is that most of the refugees will not return under TC admin anyways (especially if TC don't want them there). Most refugees will return, if their village is returned under GC admin, and what I propose gives a lot more land under GC admin which means that practically a lot more refugees will return to their homes.

Also, I don't get your point about "GCs not accepting to live with rights beyond those of a minority". With Annan plan what rights are they going to get? "Majority rights"? They would be a minority anyways.

As I said the GCs in the TC country should be treated the same way as the TCs in the GC country. So I don't see any problem with the GC and TC minorities to have their own schools, their own religious places etc.
Those people (both GCs and TCs) can even choose to have double citizenships if they want. No problem.

[turkcyp]

..... except maybe for the amount of ground (if you could you would ask for the 95%), ...

You know what Piratis. I will definetly miss you. You definetly make me lough.......

Anyway I am a happy camper tonight. You can not bring me down....

[Piratis]

You definetly make me lough

Don't worry, nervous laugh is natural when you have nothing good to say.

Anyway I am a happy camper tonight. You can not bring me down....

How come? Your party lost. Or you changed to support the winners now?

[-mikkie2-]

Turkcyp,

You are a mind reader too! Wow! Is there no end to your multitude of talents?

[metecyp]

The only things we would have to sacrifice are the rights of refugees and the integrity of Cyprus for the comng generations.

What about the benefits of the coming generations living in a diverse environment? Most people oversee this but I think it's really important. My grandfather used to speak Greek almost better than Turkish and now I can't speak a word of Greek, I see this an erosion of culture and I want my children to live in a diverse multilingual environment. I don't know what GC friends think about this, maybe they're not so interested in learning Turkish or learning from Turkish culture.