Cyprus-Forum.com

[insan]

Insan, nobody said that TCs were not murdered or that they didn't suffer.

Tassos and your official history books don't refer just a single word about TCs and Turk's murderings by Greeks and GCs.

[Piratis]

The only difference is what Turks did in 1975 and afterwords was retaliatory

Retaliation: action taken in return for an injury or offense

So, retaliation is when you "hit back". Apparently you think that "hitting back" is ok. Well, maybe I have to remind you again that Greeks were living on this island for thousands of years before the Turks come to Cyprus by force?

So take it any way you want:
1) Retaliation:
Turks started it.

2) Most casualties:
Greek Cypriots had 100 times more casualties

3) Longest time of suffering:
GCs caused suffering to TCs for about 1 decade. Compare that with the centuries of Ottoman rule and the 3 decades of occupation.

So? do you still think that GCs should be punished by having permanent derogations from their human rights, while Turks and TCs not only would not be punished, but be reworded also???

[magikthrill]

I only justified what Turks did to GCs in 1975 and afterwards were similar to what GCs did TCs in 1963-67 and 74.

so you j ustify the rapes and mass murders conducted in 74. how noble of you. i dont think anyone here justifies the crimes committed between 63-74 for the ottoman occupation but you prefer to take a lesser road.

The only difference is what Turks did in 1975 and afterwards was retaliatory but what GCs did between 1963-67 and 74 were for destroying all obstacles in front of the road to Enosis. I'm sure you'll never realize the difference between theese.

retaliatory: To return like for like, especially evil for evil.


Yes you can justify the invasion of 74 is retaliotary but the occupation that continues does not fall under that category. Again though, feel free to think whatever way makes you feel better about yourself. Just don't pollute (as brother put it correctly) us with your crap.

[insan]

Retaliation: action taken in return for an injury or offense

So, retaliation is when you "hit back". Apparently you think that "hitting back" is ok. Well, maybe I have to remind you again that Greeks were living on this island for thousands of years before the Turks come to Cyprus by force?

So what? The others who came later and make Cyprus their homeland by constituting 1/4 of the population(might be half, equal or more) have no right to demand "political equality" for safe-gurading themselves against GC agression and violation?

So take it any way you want:
1) Retaliation:
Turks started it.

??? elaborate.

2) Most casualties:
Greek Cypriots had 100 times more casualties

As a consequence of 10 years lasted GC tyranny they implemented upon TCs and welcoming the Greek invaders but resisting to Turkish intervention.

3) Longest time of suffering:
GCs caused suffering to TCs for about 1 decade. Compare that with the centuries of Ottoman rule and the 3 decades of occupation.

If Turkey hadn't intervened you'll cause TCs to suffer more decades. Had GC been sent to Cyprus by God? Which people GCs annihialted in Cyprus and became the habittants of Island?

So? do you still think that GCs should be punished by having permanent derogations from their human rights, while Turks and TCs not only would not be punished, but be reworded also???

Permenant derogations is not a punishment but a must as a cosequence of the past experiences of TCs.

[magikthrill]

Permenant derogations is not a punishment but a must as a cosequence of the past experiences of TCs.

what have we talked about not playing the history game? unfortunately this time it is relevant.

[insan]

so you j ustify the rapes and mass murders conducted in 74. how noble of you. i dont think anyone here justifies the crimes committed between 63-74 for the ottoman occupation but you prefer to take a lesser road.

I have nothing to do with alleagtions. I was talking about the violations took place in 1975 and afterwards. Justifying the existence of violation of human rights in 1975 and afterwards does not mean I justify the crimes comitted in that period. The ones who lost their lives during the defense of coupists and Greek invasion and the violation of human rights afterwards the 3rd Viena agreement signed are desperate.

retaliatory: To return like for like, especially evil for evil.

Yes, a natural reactionary behavour of human nature. It is same for all human beings.

Yes you can justify the invasion of 74 is retaliotary

I justified the intervention of 74 is both legal and retaliatory.

but the occupation that continues does not fall under that category.

I've already put forward my opinions about the reasons of on-going occupation.

Again though, feel free to think whatever way makes you feel better about yourself.

You too, likewise.

Just don't pollute (as brother put it correctly) us with your crap.

Crap is your ridiculous mentality.[/quote]

[cannedmoose]

Insan, you should remember that GC's have a monopoly on grief my friend.

At least this is according to Piratis' rather skewed view of history, which is no doubt a product of the disastrous policy of deliberate mis-education of the GC youth when it comes to history... if only they'd follow the policy lead in the north and actually change their history books to better reflect what actually went on.

According to people like Piratis, Cyprus has always been Greek and will always be Greek, the Turkish Cypriots are merely visitors to the island who deserve only a limited say in the way the island is governed (i.e. keep the minority down approach, rather than equal). He has no accurate source for his 100x figure, beyond GC references.

Granted the history of oppression by the Ottomans of GCs is well documented, but compared the the oppression demonstrated by the Ottoman Empire elsewhere within its domain, the Greeks of Cyprus got off fairly lightly. I'd advise Piratis to read an excellent recent book by Rebecca Bryant, "Imagining the Modern: The Cultures of Nationalism in Cyprus" for a discussion of how attitudes like his developed. In addition, whilst accepting that British rule had many faults, Cyprus under the British was hardly a place of slave-labour and torture. Perhaps you would have preferred King Leopold of Belgium as an overlord? You are inflicting modern views of rights on times when these rights did not apply Piratis. If you want to go back that far, how about the casualties inflicted by Greeks on Turks in 1922, or how about during Alexander's murderous rampages across Asia?

As for European distrust of 'the Turk', again a misinformed opinion. The issue causing doubt in some European countries is not a fear or hatred of Turks, it regards absorbing such a large and relatively poor country into the Union. It is true that for some people, there is a racist and anti-religious element in this, but the key issue is economics, not race or religion.

Piratis appears to live by a rather deluded creed that the Turks started everything, aided and abetted by the evil Brits working on behalf of the 'Great Satan' US. To be frank, I've heard more liberal and enlightened views from the Iranian mullahs and the Taliban. Still, given the recent pronouncements from some members of the RoC government, that people like Piratis feel secure in saying this is unsurprising. I suggest you read the article by Jean Christou, "Britain may be misbehaving, but why call in the demons?" in today's Cyprus Mail for a reasonable discussion on this.

Propaganda is to the shame of both sides of this argument. It frustrates me that in a member state of the EU, a 'European' country, that such antiquated patterns of thought can still hold. The absolute numbers of dead is not important, EVERY single person who was killed was a tragic victim of a senseless conflict (and I include those from the 1950s during the Cyprus emergency - Catherine Cutliffe anyone?)

So, rather than dwelling on figures and blame all the time, let's look to areas where we can agree upon in this forum. Simply to keep banging on about blame gets us nowhere.

[magikthrill]

cannedmoose,

i dont think your arguments are well founded. piratis hasnt denied any crimes comitted against TCs. on the contrary, turkcyp has posted previously that he was completely unaware that GCs were harmed in 1974. So either you are wrong about history books or turkcyp was not educated in northern cyprus.

[Piratis]

Permenant derogations is not a punishment but a must as a cosequence of the past experiences of TCs.

Oh really? So what about our past experiences that were 100 times worst, for a duration 100 times longer?

It is very clear that you selectively use a small part of our history as an excuse, and you forget everything else.

I really don't see why we even argue with your lame excuses. It is very clear that you know that you have the tanks of Turkey behind you and you are trying to screw us again. So drop the mask and the excuses, nobody is buying your crap in here.

[magikthrill]

So drop the mask and the excuses, nobody is buying your crap in here.

eh, i wouldn't say nobody...