Cyprus-Forum.com

[magikthrill]

Sometimes it feels like it is only the loss of property that matters (a point I have touched on before)

erolz,

this is probably because many innocent lives have been lost on both sides in the past. however, the current major issue is that of property because it affects almost 1/3 of the island (both GCs and TCs).

so I dont see any reason as to why you should be surprised why loss propert is one of the biggest issues.

[erolz]

erolz,

this is probably because many innocent lives have been lost on both sides in the past. however, the current major issue is that of property because it affects almost 1/3 of the island (both GCs and TCs).

so I dont see any reason as to why you should be surprised why loss propert is one of the biggest issues.

I understand that it is one of the biggest issue that need a resolution if we are to end this mess once and for all. My 'surprise' comes when the issue of the 'pain and suffering' of loss of property is raised. Undoubtedly the loss of your property causes pain and suffering - but just as surley (in my mind anyway) it is no where near the pain and suffering caused by the loss of a loved. When that loved one is murdered in their 'prime' and through no fault of their own except being of a particular ethnicity and of being in the wrong place at the wrong time the pain is even greater.

So I have no suprise that property remains a big issue that needs an agreement, I still feel that because it is potentialy 'solveable' it seems to dominate and displace the aknowledgment and consideration of the pain and suffering of those that lost inocent loved ones to the troubles in Cyprus. If the pain and suffering of the losing of property was always expressed in this context (of a lesser suffering than those that lost loved ones - but a potentialy solveable problem) then I would have no issue. However at times it _feels_ like all that matters is property and the those innocents that lost their lives and their loved ones deserve no recognition of thier pain and suffering. It's because the property issue is potentialy solevable and the loss of loved ones has no answers that this 'displacment' occurs, I understand that. It does not mean I have to like it though, or not remind everyone that there was and is much suffering in Cyprus on both sides that has nothing to do with 'mere' property but with something a lot more precious and a lot less replaceable. I am more than willing to accept this is a very personal view and that if my family had not lost a loved one to the troubles it would not be an issue that I even noticed necessarily.

[Nickp]

There seems to be a bit of debating or should i say bickering given some of the points that people have put forward.

I think in relation to some of the points people made, some are easier to implement than others.

I think we should concentrate on implementing the easy one's first.

For example: -

1) The removal of the Turkish flags of the Kyrenia moutain range

2) A Turkish administration set up as part of the ROC government

3) The removal of Greek flags that stand adjacent to the ROC.

4) No more sales of GC land/property that is currently unoccupied.

I put these forward for a few good reasons.

Firstly, there straight forward to implement, i can't imagine much technicalities involved such as joint use of airports and EU supervision. There's no reason they can't start tommorrow if approved. Next, it's changing everyones perception on the island and encouraging people to integrate thus creating a positive atmosphere and a feeling of progress.

For example, 200,000 GC's have to see the Turkish flags in Nicosia everyday in the moutain range. All this does is provoke bitterness. If they were removed i'm sure GC's attitude would start to become more palatable to any compromoise solution. This is the same for stopping all GC land/property currently unoccupied being sold. Again, everytime GC's hear of land/property sales it's provoking an angry/bitter attitude. If you carry out these simple steps, your romving all the bitterness and anger and slowly changing the attitude of GC's. The removal of Greek flags in the south i would imagine have the same effect on TC's and hence their need for removal. The TC administration as part of the ROC, i hope would encourage TC's to feel more inclined to come over to the south, possibly taking jobs and mingling with everyday GC's, hence realising niether side are monsters, were just people. I hope this would start to remove the perception that the ROC is a GC state.

Again, i ask my TC counterparts in this forum if they were the leaders of the TC community, would they agree to these points while we work towards a solution?

If I was the leader of the ROC, and the TC diagreed i would still go ahead and implement the points i made reagarding TC's becuase i know it will have a positive impact.

[brother]

Nick,

I like the ideas you put forward and agree that these measures make good headway for solution but.....

1.Gc property that is currently used by settlers should be returned and the settlers housed in alternative housing built on goverment land that they can purchase and if they cannot afford it they can get a subsidised mortgage from the goverment.

2.All recently sold lands/homes belonging to GC(since the referandum) to be cancelled and all foreigners who purchased have their monies returned by the seller.

3.An immediate commitee set up consisting of GC,TC and foreign experts to write the cyprus history books to be used by all on the island and be the officially accepted version of events.

4.Public apologies immidiately from the leaders of both sides for the atrocities commited to date to the cypriot people.

5.The right to cross the green line without the need to show I.D, this is our island we should be free to wander as we please.

THESE ARE ISSUES THAT I THINK CAN AND SHOULD BE IMPLIMENTED.

[Nickp]

I totally agree with what brother has just pointed out.

There, a GC and TC agreeing to make headway in the wake of things.

Should we be telling our leaders what to do?

Qeustion is, will most of our communitiies back us?

The beauty of these agreeable points is that, it's gonna change the atmosphere and mind set of the island, making a solution much more achievalbe as everybody's attitude will be changing.

[Viewpoint]

Dear Nickp,

I agree with the flags issue, not necessary should be removed totally, off mountains, buildings etc.

I also suggested joint operation of all ports and airports on the island. This would encourage GCs and TCs to work together under the same structure and in cooperation and unity.

Turkish Cypriots returning to the old ways namely RoC constitution would for many of us be going back in time to a period we would rather have not gone through. Taking part in something under the current format would not be desired by many TCs and therefore doomed to failure. Thats why we are trying to renegotiate these issues and create a new state of play in which each community would feel both comfortable and fully committed to making it a success, so that we may all live in harmony and prosperity.

In order to address the issue of development of land in the north we need to find a solution to the overall Cyprus issue, thats why in my previous posts I have stated that time is working against the south. For us to strengthen our economy and try and move onto a level playing field with the south we need economic growth through direct trade and internal development, this will benefit the financial burden on the south if and when a solution acceptable to both communities is finally agreed.
If the current isolation issues were resolved and the South took a positive active role in doing this, then the economy in the north would continue its revival via direct trade, tourism and international aid rather than the property development which a very sensative issue to both communities.

[Viewpoint]

Brother
point number 2, what if the seller has disappeared? who will pay the foreigner and will GC owner get to keep the new villa or do we demolish it? what if the seller had exchanged land in the south worth more than the land in the north??? more complicated than get the seller to pay up.

[brother]

Thats where the TRNC/Turkey gets involved and makes compensation, they knew this land belonged to somneone else and they failed to stop the selling hence should and will be held accountable.

If the land has a building on it then unfortunately 3 option exist:

1:compensation at market value for land

2:If building is empty they can pay the difference for the monies spent on the building(they will not lose out on this)

3:they are offered alternative plots of land in vicinity


You see viewpoint this issue must be solved but if you act rationally and give people a few options then you can resolve the problems.

[Nickp]

Hi there Viewpoint,

I respect your view, but the initiatives i'm trying to put forward are one's to build trust and change attitudes from both communities.

So i disagree with your view to the extent that it's better to take a few steps in progress to help faciliate an overall solution. I guess this is a simple case of maybe we should learn to walk together before running.

The point's that i've made I belive are feasiable if there is the will from both sides. I think some of brothers suggestions even though i agree with them may be a bit tougher to impliment such as the settler/property issue. Maybe this should be discussed as part of an overall solution.

Further more, in terms of the flag issue, i'm not suggesting that all Turkish flags come down, just the one's on the Kyrenia mountain range for the reasons i've pointed out. As for the TC administration in the ROC, again this isn't permanent or to be seen as substitute to a political settlement. It's just a body to help TC's take advantages of the rights there entitled to in the south until an overall political solution is found.

Again, it's all about building trust and living and working with each other and reducing provocation.

[Viewpoint]

Nickp

Again, it's all about building trust and living and working with each other and reducing provocation.

I agree totally.

We the people may agree on taking positive confidence building measures but dont forget all these suggestions do not bring political gain for our leaders so neither community would make the first move, although I wish they would. If one day a miracle occurs like the boarders opening then that leader will become a Cypriot national hero.
They cant even agree to talk to each other how on earth do we expect them to resolve anything.

PS the flags i was referring to were the one on the mountain and the one that was painted on the side of a tall building in the south to counter the one in the north.