Cyprus-Forum.com

[macketterry]

Ok so we are expected to negotiate on ethnic cleansing. Some issues are simply are not negotiable. Ethnic cleansing cannot simply be dealt with by the remedy of monetary compensation.

This is not a matter which anyother modern democratic European country is asked to horsetrade on. Negotiating on ethnic cleansing is an abomonation from the dark ages.

And you will probably say that property speculators purchased refugee land in 'good faith as well. These people took a gamble on the institutionalisation of ethnic cleansing and lost. There is only one certain way that property speculators can legally buy land in the occupied north and that is by purchasing land which makes up the 8% owned by Turkish Cypriots.

Another problem is that the Annan Plan did not in fact provide firm details of the withdrawal of Turkish Troops.

Well, if you refuse to negotiate then you will get nowhere. Ethnic cleansing took place for TCs too, as has been discussed on this forum ad nauseam.

And there's no point in comparing what might have happened in a modern European country because Cyprus is only superficially modern and in reality is a backward, inward-looking hotbed of prejudice and nationalism. And now Cyprus is painfully having to emerge from the dark ages and face up to its past and move on - something which it appears not willing or ready to do yet.

In this respect you have more in common with Albania or Kosovo or developing non-European states.

The property sales to foreigners amount to 0.1% of the island and have taken place in the last 2 years. The focus this issue is given is out of proportion to its actual magnitude.

Your quibble about the detail in the Annan Plan is disingenuous because if there was any general stomach for a solution broadly along its lines a point like this would have been negotiated upon.

The fact is that you - as you readily admit - would rather have nothing than a lot if it involves compromise.

[Agios Amvrosios]

Your comments regarding the any alleged ethnic cleanisng of Turkish cypriots has not been documented or supported by case law. the unilateral formation of ethnic enclaves as a stepping stone or subtefuge to taksim is hardly ethnic cleansing. In any case 88% of legal title to property in towns and villages the occupied north is held by ethnic Greek cypriots.The legality of this title has been reinforced by at least 3 ECHR cases and many (admittedly useless) UN resolutions. An estimated 1,400 property cases are pending before the ECHR. Access to this form of justice would have been signed away with the AP(RIP).

If you're a property speculator in the north I see you in 3 to 6 months McNackery:

Yesterday's statement by the European Court of Human Rights following the decision of Xenidis Arestis which operates to clear the way for Greek Cypriots to regain property lost in the Turkish-controlled north.:

"Such a remedy should be available within three months and redress should occur three months after that,"

I'm curious Mr Mckerry are you one of the hack foreign judges appointed to the "trnc' refugee property commission.

I don't accept your criticism of Cyprus as being "superficially" democratic and european but even if it was does that mean that ordinary citizens are entitled to enjoy fewer universal human rights? and this entitle property speculators to take advantage of recognized and documented abuses of human rights and breaches of the European Charter of Human Rights?

[macketterry]

Your comments regarding the any alleged ethnic cleanisng of Turkish cypriots has not been documented or supported by case law. the unilateral formation of ethnic enclaves as a stepping stone or subtefuge to taksim is hardly ethnic cleansing. In any case 88% of legal title to property in towns and villages the occupied north is held by ethnic Greek cypriots.The legality of this title has been reinforced by at least 3 ECHR cases and many (admittedly useless) UN resolutions. An estimated 1,400 property cases are pending before the ECHR. Access to this form of justice would have been signed away with the AP(RIP).

If you're a property speculator in the north I see you in 3 to 6 months McNackery:

Yesterday's statement by the European Court of Human Rights following the decision of Xenidis Arestis which operates to clear the way for Greek Cypriots to regain property lost in the Turkish-controlled north.:

"Such a remedy should be available within three months and redress should occur three months after that,"

I'm curious Mr Mckerry are you one of the hack foreign judges appointed to the "trnc' refugee property commission.

I don't accept your criticism of Cyprus as being "superficially" democratic and european but even if it was does that mean that ordinary citizens are entitled to enjoy fewer universal human rights? and this entitle property speculators to take advantage of recognized and documented abuses of human rights and breaches of the European Charter of Human Rights?

Let's see if the so-called 'domestic' remedy in TRNC courts is acceptable to the ECHR. If it is then we can expect to see lots of GCs getting redress with financial compensation - or their properties back pending a political solution.

Are you a paranoid individual? You first accuse me of being a property speculator then a quack judge! Wrong on both counts, Loopy!

[Agios Amvrosios]

Regarding your misinformation about turkish troop withdrawals. The last couple of versions provided for an indefinite occupation by the Turkish Military:

Turk Generals insisted some troops must stay –

TURKISH Generals insisted that some Turkish troops should stay in Cyprus, even after a settlement based on the Annan Plan, and UN officials acting as "arbitrators" quickly accepted their demand, without bothering even to inform the Republic of Cyprus about the change.

Earlier versions of the Annan Plan, the product of negotiation, provided that all Turkish troops would pull out of the island by stages.

Would you accept a foreign military occupation with a violent beligerent history of breaching the Geneva convention and the Charter of Human Rights in what ever country you come from?