Cyprus-Forum.com

[turkcyp]

next time please copy the whole statement.

I did not need to copy the whole sentence, becuase the sentence you just put down, is not what T.Pap said. I was refering to T.Pap conditions not the condition that UN envoy had put forward to accept T.Paps condition.

LOL...

Turkcyp,
imo, this time things are different, for two reasons:
a) there is a specific plan that they're presumably going to be trying to amend. That means that there's only so many things they can talk about (hence they shouldn't be talking for another 30 years . But then again, you never know )
b) T-Pap knows that this is going to be the last real chance we get. If this one fails too, it's either going to be completely over, or it's going to be so long before a next round comes along, that things are going to be irreversible.

Or, that's what I hope, at least

Hope you are right Jimmy. But it does not specify what would happen if TC side does not agree if we do not like T.Pap changes, or counter them with our changes and he refuses them.

Everybody in TC side believes that T.Pap will come up with unacceptable wants. Like immediate withdrawal of Turkish army even before negotiations start, OR full return of all refugees, basically effectively killing bizonality.

For T.Pap this whole discussion is nothing more than trying to amend 1960 constitution so that it is more acceptable to TCs, not trying to write a new comprehensive solution. IF that is what he is trying to do then he should first give all our rights from that constitution so that we can start negotiating.

That is how it seems from this side of the green line.

[boulio]

I did not need to copy the whole sentence, becuase the sentence you just put down, is not what T.Pap said. I was refering to T.Pap conditions not the condition that UN envoy had put forward to accept T.Paps condition.

LOL...


excuse me ?the un envoy stated that annan has accepted the conditions however they are not expecting the negotiotions to last for years as sainty jimmy pointed out,concerning third party no one said about not having a third party mediator however not to have the authority to fill in the blanks and put it to a vote.

[Viewpoint]

Sorry to be a joy killer but should we start rallying in the streets for the NO vote tomorrow???, maybe Denktash can cry when he leaves the Presidential Palace next month.
Its doomed to failure and TC will use Hayir/no/Oxi vote.

Sorry Im jumping the gun a bit couldnt help myself

[brother]

I would pay real money to see denktas weep over a plan.... but going back to discussion all i understood from that news clipping is that the Americans have said 'so tassos you want to play, we accept your version now tell us what you want' hence the ball firmly in his court and annan confirmed this move by accepting all his terms, now if tassos does not come up with something and get the ball really moving then you watch that 'ton of bricks' start slowly falling on his head.

IN THE REAL WORLD TASSOS IS A MERE CHILD IN POLITICAL GAMES ESPECIALLY AGAINST THE MASTERS OF POLITICS THE AMERICANS.

[boulio]

IN THE REAL WORLD TASSOS IS A MERE CHILD IN POLITICAL GAMES ESPECIALLY AGAINST THE MASTERS OF POLITICS THE AMERICANS.
_________________

so far tassos is looking good,we will what and see,and are these americans the same ones that were claiming direct trade and flights to the t/c the master of politics and diplomacy?

[boulio]

maybe the US IS TRULY changing im not holding my breath though:

http://www.turkishpress.com/news.asp?id=38870

[brother]

wether we like it or not the u.s will play its games against us all, gc, tc, greece and turkey.

The tons of bricks have been falling on tc heads for 30+ years, and we still have not got used to it, so do not treat what i said just against you but we are all mere children against u.s politics, might blah blah blah......long live americaaaaaa...lalalala....lalalal.... you get what i am saying, you need to talk more and be less sarcastic.

[MicAtCyp]

What if we do not find a solution. When are we going to say enough is enough. Is he expecting us to talk for another 30 years?

I hear this argument often, and I don't beleive is valid. The negotiations as always are going to be watched. The side who is intrangident/or maximalistc/or uncompromising is going to pay in cash this time. And I mean the thing she will pay will be burning! It is not like in the past that the UN were just pointing the intrangidence of Denktash and after 15 days everybody forgot about it.

In my opinion there is no way this time for the negotiations to lead nowhere. They will lead TO A SOLUTION.
That is why Papadopoulos is not revealing his changes on the Anan Plan.Because there is any reasonable possibility that by asking changes on the Anan Plan we will end up to anything different.
The negotiations will start ONLY when EVERYBODY agrees that the Anan Plan cannot be their basis. The sooner the better for everyone.

[brother]

Now we are talking, you see the world is sick of us and our squabbling and in the bigger picture of things they want to use us as an example in the middle east as how peace can be achieved etc.

[Alexandros Lordos]

It seems to me that the US is only now trying to develop a post-referenda policy on Cyprus ... up until now, they have been going on autopilot, and officially saying the same things they were saying before the referenda - i.e. that the Annan Plan (in its fifth form) is the only plan on the table. This policy is of course out of date, it made sense before the referenda to push people towards a decision, but it is totally counter-productive now:

a. Because it totally alienates the GCs
b. Because it is encouraging the TCs to be totally unyielding and uncompromising in future negotiations.

To the limited extent that I see things from the inside, the Americans have been "searching for a new policy on Cyprus" for months now (amongst the various people I talked to, the Americans have so far been one of the "most eager" audiences for survey data), and it seems that the "road-map" idea is what they have finally come up with ...

I think it is a clever policy, it is respectful to GC concerns, but at the same time it encourages responsible behaviour. The Americans avoided the ridiculous demand "tell us what changes you want to the Annan Plan" which the UN has very undiplomatically been putting forward. Instead, by asking for a road map, the Americans are giving Tassos some leeway to talk about negotiating procedure and expound on general areas of concern ...

I agree with MicAtCyp that if we start by "saying what changes we want", the result will either be instant deadlock or a plan with minimal changes (most probably the first). In my opinion, we need to start negotiations on a more general level, with the two sides discussing and agreeing the overall principles and philosophy which will underpin the solution, and only then going into the details. It can not be taken for granted that the principles which were "agreed" (they were never agreed of course, the UN just did a ... collage) by Clerides and Denktash in 1999-2000 (i.e. when the foundations of the Annan Plan were being laid), are still valid today, or that they in any way express the views and approaches of Papadopoulos and Talat - who currently hold the popular mandate to negotiate on behalf of the GCs and of the TCs.

This approach will not "take years", but neither can it be completed in a few months. I believe that we need at least six to nine months of negotiations before we can agree on a general framework, then at least another year before we can agree on the details, and then at least six months to educate the public and prepare them for the referenda - so, at least two years. If we start immediately after April, and if neither side wastes time by being intransigent, then maybe we can have a solution by mid 2007 ...

This might sound like a long time, but actually it will be an extremely busy period for everyone involved - including the public, which should, in my opinion, be intensely involved in the negotiations, not ignored and avoided like last time.