Cyprus-Forum.com

[Agios Ionas]

give me the present situation anyday.sorry but i dont want to live near you because i dont trust you

You don't have to trust me, but you have no reason not to.

thats the view from some quarters but what were the needs and wants of the uk and us on this tiny dot in the world and how have the uk and us since benefited in this partition

All the needs and wants of the UK and US is known only to them. One can only guess.

My unqualified guesses are as follows:

[tinfoil hat on]
The idea of giving one part of the island to Greece (as the failed coup d'état suggests was the original plan) and the other part to Turkey was a simple act of throwing them a bone. A clever move if you want to keep two NATO allies happy and willing to do your future bidding.

Partition would most likely secure Dhekelia and Akrotiri for the UK since Greece (if we assume the original plan succeeded) wouldn't deny them this because of the generous gift (part of Cyprus) given.

The strategic location of Cyprus can't be ignored. Ie, the closeness to the Middle East and Arab countries is important, both for the UK and US. We all know where the black gold is to be found. And we know who wants to control it badly, one way or another.

Seriously, it's easy to come up with a whole bunch of conspiracy theories and ideas. But the guesses above can very well be correct to some extent.
[/tinfoil hat off]

and you disagree that tc and gc cant live together,why then have they failed to come to any sort of agreement since 1974

[tinfoil hat on]
Why every effort to come to any sort of agreement so far has failed? Because of propaganda and games delivered and played by Turkey/Denktaş, the UK, the US as well as their GC cronies (because we all know there has been and still is people on both 'sides' who have interests other than what's best for Cyprus and Cypriots). The big fish have simply not fulfilled all their wants and needs yet. They want to keep milking the cow until her tits can deliver no more.

With the current UK/US activities in Iraq and possible future targets (Iran anyone?) with Turkey already involved to some extent God knows what will happen. This 'tiny dot' in the world can very well be much more important than anyone wants to admit or understand. Cyprus/'TRNC' and EU membership are still like bones thrown to Turkey to keep her happy and willing to obey orders. The strategic location of Cyprus could be more important than ever for surveillance and more... in preparation for invasions/interventions and during such activities.
[/tinfoil hat off]

With Cyprus in the EU and Turkey possibly on its way in you really shouldn't have any reason to distrust the GC's anymore. What happened happened, this is 2008. I think you and others like you look for reasons not to trust the GC's although you know Cyprus and the world in general is very different now compared to the 50's to early 70's. There's distrust on both 'sides'... but sometime, some day people will have to take the plunge and 'risk everything' in order to gain everything and discover that there was virtually no risk involved at all. Apart from some fanatics on both 'sides' people will play nicely with each other. Those fanatics will be taken care of by the authorities. That's how things are done in democratic countries within the EU.

[GreekForumer]

why then have they failed to come to any sort of agreement since 1974

Because Turks-TCs want GCs to accept conditions that the Turks-TCs themselves would never accept if the situation was reversed.
If that was not the case then my "RECIPROCAL COMMUNITY RIGHTS PLAN" would be a solution to the Cyprus problem.

RECIPROCAL COMMUNITY RIGHTS PLAN

"GCs will accept any TC community right if, and only if, the Kurds of Turkey can also claim the EXACT same right."

The beauty of this plan is twofold.

1. The GCs are COMPLETELY out of the loop. You cannot claim the GCs are being unfair because they are not negotiating these rights. TCs and mainland Turks can negotiate what these rights are.

2. Fairness. You cannot ask something of one community that your own community is not willing to accept. Surely ??

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=14428

[kentish]

A I your interpretation of the gains of UK and US is pure conjecture and the us have enough bases in the area to deal with their stupid middle east policy.

as for trust no not yet i am afraid.you had the opportinty to show some trust and fairness in the annan vote and you blew it.the voters were not extremists or politicians they were ordinary people.

i have gc friends in london and nobody ever ever discussses cyprus because we all know we cannot agree with the interpretation of the past or view of the future.

if the world allowed the serbs to cause carnage and murder in yugoslavia then the same could happen in cyprus.the only thing that stopped this in cyprus in 1974 was the turkish peacekeeping force.

[halil]

Have a read what columnist writer Hasan Hastürer interview by alihtia news paper . to see some facts about 74 . it is well balanced and personaly i agree with his writing .
i hope Pirates will read it as well . it will be seconed time i am putting it in here .ROC history started from 1960 not from 1571 .
GC's also can read it in Greek from alihtia news paper.published date is 20 july 2008.


Daily news paper Kibris writer interview translated to English .
at first page you can find Translated one and at seconed page original one which is published at Kibris .Seconed part will be later on .

Hasan Hasturer

In a true sense we never had a ‘Unity of Objective’.

[These are my] responses to the questions asked by ‘Alithia’ concerning the events of 20 July 1974.

What do the events of 20th July 1974 mean to the Turkish Cypriots.

The response to this is both easy and difficult.

In spite of the ‘Ceremonies’, it is worth studying the 20th July Jubilations.

What was lived until 1974 had seriously damaged the trust Turkish Cypriots had for the Greek Cypriots. Until 1974, there was present – among Turkish Cypriots fear of the Greek Cypriots.. 20th July [the events of] was the ending of this fear and was the day when Turkish Cypriots gained a ‘stronger hand’ against the Greek Cypriots.

Apart from not having a joint political aim [on the contrary] very differing political aims had rendered military power important.
By the arrival of the Turkish Army in Cyprus on the 20th July they gained the military strength they could never have achieved by normal means.

Common language and understanding is one of the ‘Cyprus Problems’. We call the 20th July a ‘peace operation’. They call it ‘invasion’.
We call it TRNC/KKTC, they call it ‘illegal state’. We could provide more examples. Because of these differing expressions there are ‘risks’ involved when making ‘joint statements’.

Bearing this in mind, as the author of these lines I am taking the risk of responding to Costa Constantinou of the ‘Alithia’ [newspaper].in English.

[He] e-mailed the questions.
He stated that my response could be in Turkish. I did e-mail my responses back to him in Turkish. My thoughts were published in a ‘full page’. Today, I am trying to get a Turkish translation of what was printed in Greek.
My intentions are to share with readers these statements and presentations. This way I am able to correct errors – which may have crept in due to errors in translation.
The case may be the full text may not be published. What might be left out may be important to what I am conveying to the readers as a whole. Publication of the full text creates a ‘wholeness’.

Today and tomorrow I will respond to Alithia questions and share them with you in two parts.

Before I get to the Q and A’s I must make a point.
I use the expressions in the questions as they are. So I do not make the same mistakes they do. eg: If I did not use the word ‘invasion’, they should not use it either.


Here is part I of the Questions and Answers:
Question

20th July 1974 is a tragic day for the Greek Cypriots .We are in pain for the loss of our homes and those dear to us. O the other side we have the Turkish Cypriots, who together with the Turkish Officials are celebrating with ‘parades’. So with these in mind what does today mean to the Turkish Cypriot people?

Answer

It is necessary to have a common aim in a true sense in order to share sorrow and share joy.
Even in a worse case scenario, as a person who has always wished to ‘live together’, I have looked back at the past have seen no ‘common aim’ in the true sense.

The existence of the Turkish Cypriots goes back to the days of the conquest of Cyprus in 1571. For 437 years Greek Cypriots and Turkish Cypriots have formed the two ‘main’ groups on this island. For nearly 500 years on, what have we done [together] in order to become the owners and governors of the Island. Or have we been able to put together our political views and struggled to form a common goal? In my view the only serious joint effort was the act of joint opposition to the Catholic Venetian administration during siege of Cyprus.

Apart from examples of good neighbourliness there has been no common aim. The Lefka miners strike is one of the very few exemptions.

Under British rule Greek Cypriots began the fight for union with Greece, therefore beginning the Enosis campaign. Were the Turkish Cypriots to join in with this struggle for Enosis? EOKA was not the fight for independence it was a fight for Enosis.

In those days the leadership did not provide a healthy political aim to the Turkish Cypriot community. So the Turkish Cypriots joined in with the British in the fight against EOKA. 1955 – 1960 brought Turkish and Greek Cypriots face to face in a serious way. In spite of the signatures of Makarios and Dr Kucuk on the agreements that gave life to Cyprus Republic the administration of both communities were full of sworn elements of TMT and EOKA who were none believers in ‘living together’.

The constitutional Cyprus Republic only lived for 3 years.

It is not important from my point of view to apportion blame for the events of December 1963. The fact that the Turkish Cypriot Civil Servants left their duties and settled in narrow ghettos (enclaves) and began the formation of a nucleus of governing system could have been prevented by the numerically superior Greek Cypriots. The foundations of the separation and partition were set on that day.

From 1963 to 1974 it was as if the Greek Cypriot community never bothered to ask the question of ‘whatever is going to happen to this Cyprus problem’.

I am from Kucuk Kaimakli/ Omorphita. In 1963 under the leadership of Nicos Sampson, EOKA attacked our village. As refugees we went to Hamit Mandrez. Our homes burnt and destroyed. Many died, many went missing. In those difficult times we were left to our fate.

In your question you state that the tragedy began on 20 July 1974. But you must not forget that without the events of 15 July 1974 there would have been no 20 July 1974.

I have never accepted that any revenge for pain, sadness, tears can be comparable. But a large number of Turkish Cypriots see 1974 as revenge for 1963. I will re-iterate I am not one with this view.

[b]From the way we lived after the events of 1963 we know very well what our Greek Cypriot brothers have gone through.

A great majority of Turkish Cypriots will till the day a solutions is found and reunification is achieved, will continue to treat 20 July as a day of celebration.


I wish by joint agreements these hurtful commemorative celebrations would be postponed/cancelled.

Question
What do TC’s think of the presence of the Turkish Army in the North of the Island are they ‘peace keepers’ or are they ‘occupying forces’ in their mother country.

Answer
The Turkish Cypriots do not see the presence of the Turkish Army in Cyprus as the same way as the Greek Cypriots do. Turkey came to the Island under the powers bestowed upon as a guarantor power.

The results created by the Turkish Army has pleased the TC population in the wider
sense but the presence of the Turkish Army has on occasions caused problems to the civil and democratic way of life. These problematic days are fewer and far between in comparison to the Denktas years. The Turkish Army did not come to Cyprus as the grandchildren of the Ottoman Turks who had given Cyprus to the British in 1878. What bought the Turkish Army was the coup on 15 July under the powers of the guarantor agreement.

With those rights their presence on the Island continues.

At this point I would like to share a few thoughts with you 98% of Turkish Cypriots or even more are keen on the continuation of guarantor powers.

Why?

If after the 15 July coup, Turkey did not intervene Cyprus would have been part of Greece and most likely that the coupist’s who were slaughtering their own people would eventually turn on the Turkish Cypriots. Because of this it was good thing that there were these guarantees.

The guarantees brought disaster to Greek Cypriots.

Greece, one of the guarantors powers organised the coup. The other guarantor, Turkey, intervened militarily. The third guarantor power England, just watched. If I was a Greek Cypriot and looked at the above scenario, I too would appose any guarantors.

The days good word :
if you wish to be understood, you must talk. [/b]

http://www.kibrisgazetesi.com/index.php ... /Ana_sayfa

[halil]

Turkish Version .

i put it here if we made any translating mistake .
Alithia'nın 20 Temmuz 1974'le ilgili sorularını yanıtlarken neler söyledim (1)
20 Temmuz Kıbrıslı Türkler açısından ne mana taşıyor? Bu sorunun yanıtı hem kolay hem de zor.
Törenler yapılsa da Kıbrıslı Türklerin 20 Temmuz coşkusu incelenmeye değerdir. 1974'e kadar yaşananlar Kıbrıslı Türklerin, Kıbrıslı Rumlara güvenini ciddi anlamda yaraladı. 1974'e kadar Kıbrıslı Türkler de Rum korkusu vardı. 20 Temmuz o korkunun bittiği, o güne kadar daha güçlü olan Rum tarafına karşı daha üstün güç elde edildiği gündür.
Ortak siyasi hedef olmaması bir yana çok farklı siyasi hedefler askeri gücü önemli hale getirmişti. Kıbrıs Türk tarafı 20 Temmuz'da Türk askerinin adaya gelişiyle normal koşullarda elde edemeyeceği güç üstünlüğünü elde etmiştir
Ortak dil, ortak tanımlama Kıbrıs'ın sorunlarından biridir. Biz 20 Temmuz'a Barış Harekatı deriz, Rumlar, işgal... Biz KKTC deriz onlar "sahte devlet"... Örnekleri daha da uzatmak olası... Bu farklı tanımlamalar nedeniyle karşılıklı verilen demeçlerin riski var... Bu satırları yazarı olarak bu riski bile bile Güney Kıbrıs'ta yayımlanan Alithia gazetesinden Kosta Kostantinou'nun sorularını yanıtladım.
Soruları elektronik postayla İngilizce dilinde yolladı... Yanıtlarımın Türkçe olabileceğini söylediği için yanıtlarımı Türkçe olarak verip yine elektronik postayla gönderdim. Görüşlerim dün tam sayfa olarak yayımlandı. Rumca olarak yazılanların Türkçe karşılığını tam metin olarak bu gün elde etmeye çalışacağım.
Bu tür demeç ve sunuşlarımı köşemden okurlarla paylaşma ilkem var. Böylece tercümeden kaynaklanan hataları düzeltmiş de oluyorum. Bir de söyleşinin tümü yayımlanmamış olabilir. Yayın dışında kalan bölümler bütünlüklü söylediklerim bakımından önemlidir. Söylediklerimin tümünü yayımlamam bu bakımdan da tamamlayıcı olur.
Alithia gazetesinin sorduğu sorular ve verdiğim yanıtları bugün ve yarın iki bölümde sizlerle paylaşacağım.
Soru ve yanıtlara geçmeden bir vurgu yapayım. Sorularda kullanılan tanımlamaları olduğu gibi kullanıyorum. Böylece onların düştüğü hataya düşmüyorum... Örneğin ben "istila" ifadesi kullanmamışsam tercümede de kullanılmamalıydı...

İşte soru ve yanıtların ilk bölümü:
SORU: 20 Temmuz 1974 Kıbrıslı Rumlar için trajik bir gündür. İşgalde yitirdiğimiz evlerimiz ve yakınlarımız için acı çekmekteyiz. Öte yanda Kıbrıslı Türkler, Türk yetkililerle birlikte, geçit törenleriyle kutluyor. Dolayısıyla bu günün Kıbrıs Türk toplumu için anlamı nedir?

YANIT: Birlikte üzülüp, birlikte sevinmek için gerçek anlamda kader birliği içinde olmak gerekir.
En kötü senaryo koşullarında bile Kıbrıs'ta süreç içinde en üst ortak değerlerde birlikte yaşamı arzu eden biri olarak geçmişimize baktığım zaman gerçek anlamda kader birliğimiz olmadığını görürüm.
Kıbrıs'ta Kıbrıslı Türk varlığının kökeni 1571'de adanın Osmanlılar tarafından alınması sonrasına uzanır. Dört yüz otuz yedi yıldır bu adada Kıbrıslı Rumlarla, Kıbrıslı Türkler iki büyük çoğunluğu oluşturur. Yaklaşık beş yüz yıllık süre içinde adaya birlikte sahip çıkıp, birlikte yönetme bakımından ne yaptık? Ya da siyasal niteliği olan ortak hedefler koyup birlikte mücadele edebildik mi? Bana göre en ciddi birliktelik Osmanlılar adayı fethederken Ortodoks Kıbrıslı Rumların, Katolik Venedik yönetimine karşı dayanışma içinde oluşudur.

İyi komşuluk örnekleri dışında siyasi boyutu olan kader birliğimiz olmadı. Altmış yıl önceki Lefke Maden Grevi az sayıda istisnadan biridir.
Birlikte hareket edememede ortak siyasi hedef yoksunluğu önemli nedendir.
İngiliz sömürge döneminde Kıbrıslı Rumlar adanın Yunanistan'a bağlanması için ENOSİS mücadelesini başlattı. Kıbrıslı Türkler ENOSİS mücadelesine katkı mı koyacak mı? EOKA bağımsızlık mücadelesi değil, ENOSİS mücadelesi verdi.
O dönemin Kıbrıs Türk liderliği Kıbrıs Türk toplumuna sağlıklı bir siyasi hedef göstermedi, Kıbrıslı Türkler, EOKA'ya karşı adadaki İngiliz askeri birliğinin saflarında yer aldı.
1955-1960 arası Kıbrıslı Türklerle Kıbrıslı Rumları çok daha net karşı karşıya getirdi.
Kıbrıs Cumhuriyeti'ne hayat veren anlaşmalarda Makarios ve Dr. Küçük'ün imzaları olmasına rağmen Kıbrıs Cumhuriyeti'nin ilk yöneticileri her iki toplumda birlikte yaşamaya inanmayan EOKA ve TMT'nin yeminli elemanlarıydı.
Kıbrıs Cumhuriyeti anayasal kimliğiyle sadece üç yıl yaşadı.
1963, Aralık olaylarında kimin suçlu, kimin suçsuz olduğu benim açımdan hiç önemli değil. Kıbrıslı Türklerin, Cumhuriyetteki görevlerini terk edip, getto gibi dar bölgelerde kendi yönetim çekirdeğini kurmasına güçlü olan Kıbrıs Rum tarafı izin vermeyebilirdi. Ayrılığın, Taksim'in temeli o gün atıldı.
1963'ten 1974'e kadar Rum toplumunda "Ne olacak bu Kıbrıs sorunu?" neredeyse hiç sorulmadı.
Ben K. Kaymaklılıyım (Omorphita)... 1963'te Samson öncülüğünde EOKA'cılar köyümüze saldırdı. Mandres'e göçmen gittik. Evlerimiz yakıldı yıkıldı. Çok sayıda insan öldü, kayıp oldu...
O zor dönemde kaderimizle baş başa kaldık.
Sorunuzda trajedi tarihi olarak 20 Temmuz 1974'ü gösterdiniz. Ama unutmayınız ki 15 Temmuz olmasaydı 20 Temmuz olmayacaktı.
Ben hiç bir zaman acının, hüznün, gözyaşının rövanşının benzer olmasını kabul etmem. Ama çok sayıda Kıbrıslı Türk 1974'ü, 1963'ün rövanşı olarak görüyor. Yineliyorum, ben öyle görenlerden değilim.
1963 sonrası yaşadıklarımız nedeniyle 1974 sonrası Kıbrıslı Rum kardeşlerimizin yaşadıklarını çok iyi biliyoruz.
Kıbrıslı Türklerin büyük çoğunluğu çözüm ve birlikte yaşam olana kadar 20 Temmuz'u bayram kabul edecek.
20 Temmuz Kıbrıslı Türkler açısından ne mana taşıyor? Bu sorunun yanıtı hem kolay hem de zor.
Törenler yapılsa da Kıbrıslı Türklerin 20 Temmuz coşkusu incelenmeye değerdir. 1974'e kadar yaşananlar Kıbrıslı Türklerin, Kıbrıslı Rumlara güvenini ciddi anlamda yaraladı. 1974'e kadar Kıbrıslı Türklerde Rum korkusu vardı. 20 Temmuz o korkunun bittiği, o güne kadar daha güçlü olan Rum tarafına karşı daha üstün güç elde edildiği gündür.
Ortak siyasi hedef olmaması bir yana çok farklı siyasi hedefler askeri gücü önemli hale getirmişti. Kıbrıs Türk tarafı 20 Temmuz'da Türk askerinin adaya gelişiyle normal koşullarda elde edemeyeceği güç üstünlüğünü elde etmiştir.
Keşke karşılıklı uzlaşı ile karşılıklı incitici özellik taşıyan yıl dönümü kutlamaları iptal edilse.

SORU: Kıbrıslı Türkler adanın kuzeyindeki Türk askeri varlığıyla ilgili ne düşünüyor. Barışgücü müdürler yoksa anavatanlarında işgalci midirler?

YANIT: Kıbrıslı Türkler, Türk askerinin adadaki varlığını Kıbrıslı Rumlar gibi görmüyor ve tanımlamıyor.
Türkiye adaya garantörlük haklarını kullanarak gelmiştir.
Türk askerinin adada yarattığı sonuç Kıbrıslı Türkleri en genel tanımlamasıyla memnun etmiştir.
Ancak askerin Kuzey Kıbrıs'taki varlığı sivil ve demokratik yaşam bakımından zaman zaman sıkıntı yaratmaktadır. Bu sıkıntı Denktaşlı günlere göre şimdi daha azdır.
Türk askeri 1878'de adayı İngilizlere veren Osmanlı Türklerinin torunları olarak adaya gelmedi. Türk askerinin adaya getiren 15 Temmuz darbesi ve garanti anlaşmasının verdiği haktır. O hak sınırları içinde adadaki varlığı sürüyor.
Bu noktada bazı görüşlerimi sizlerle paylaşmak isterim.
Kıbrıslı Türklerin % 98 hatta fazlası olası bir çözüm modelinde de garantör ülke uygulamasının devamından yanadır. Neden? 15 Temmuz darbesi sonrası Türkiye adaya askeri müdahale yapmamış olsaydı, ada Yunanistan'a bağlanacaktı ve büyük olasılıkla kendi insanının katleden cuntacılar Kıbrıslı Türkleri de katledecekti. Bu nedenle iyi ki garantörlük vardı.
Garantörlük Kıbrıslı Rumlara felaket getirdi.
Bir garantör ülke olarak Yunanistan, darbe yaptı... Öteki garantör ülke Türkiye adaya askeri müdahalede bulundu... Üçüncü garantör ülke İngiltere ise seyretti... Böyle bir tabloya baktığımız zaman ben de Kıbrıslı bir Rum olsam garantörlüğe karşı çıkar, istemezdim.


Günün sözü:
Anlaşılmak isteyen konuşmalı

[Agios Ionas]

A I your interpretation of the gains of UK and US is pure conjecture and the us have enough bases in the area to deal with their stupid middle east policy.

Fair enough, it was pure speculation... but I also told you it was a bunch of unqualified guesses. I do however think it's not too far from the truth. Can the US have enough bases? Why settle with 1... or 2... or 3 when you can have 20 or 100? For the US it's never enough.

as for trust no not yet i am afraid.you had the opportinty to show some trust and fairness in the annan vote and you blew it.the voters were not extremists or politicians they were ordinary people.

Voting OXI to the 'Annan Plan' had nothing to do with how GC's would treat TC's in the event of a (fair) solution. The majority of ordinary people on the 'GC side' simply thought what was offered wasn't a fair solution.

i have gc friends in london and nobody ever ever discussses cyprus because we all know we cannot agree with the interpretation of the past or view of the future.

No disrespect, but that's choosing the cowardly route. If they truly are your friends you should be able to discuss the Cyprus problem in a friendly and constructive manner. Who knows... perhaps you will find mutual ground? You'll never know unless you actually try. And if they truly are your friends worst case scenario would be that you agree to disagree.

if the world allowed the serbs to cause carnage and murder in yugoslavia then the same could happen in cyprus.the only thing that stopped this in cyprus in 1974 was the turkish peacekeeping force.

And the big difference between former Yugoslavia then and Cyprus today is?

<drum whirl>

Cyprus is a member of the EU! Do you really think the EU would allow something like that to happen in Cyprus? Don't you think they would thwart such activities immediately? Personally I don't think the EU would sit back and let things unfold. They would never allow anything that could potentially cause instability and breakdown of the entire union.

Oh... and quite frankly... there is no reason to be 'afraid' as you put it. Take a deep breath and think about it... do you really think the GC's would grab the first possible opportunity to round you up and murder all TC's?

Do you think the most fanatic Turk hating Nikos Sampson wannabe would even believe they would get away with genocide?

Sorry kentish, but you are delusional. All your nightmares and fantasies of genocide in Cyprus 2008 are nothing but the effects of +34 years of propaganda and scare-talk.

[kentish]

well there we go A I there is absolutely nothing we can agree on.You stay where you are and i stay where i am.I believe my propaganda and you believe yours and dont tell me what i can or cant talk to my friends about.


whenever a tc sites lack of safety in an open cyprus the gc says dont worry you have the eu to protect you,poppycock !!
if it all goes belly up in cyprus what can the eu do ?send the troops in ?
i suspect all they can do is kick you out of the eu

[GreekForumer]

whenever a tc sites lack of safety in an open cyprus the gc says dont worry you have the eu to protect you,poppycock !!
if it all goes belly up in cyprus what can the eu do ?send the troops in ?
i suspect all they can do is kick you out of the eu

What year must come to pass before you believe all the EOKA murderers from 1963 or 1974 will be dead or too old to harm the TCs ?

2010 ? 2020 ?

[Agios Ionas]

well there we go A I there is absolutely nothing we can agree on.You stay where you are and i stay where i am.I believe my propaganda and you believe yours and dont tell me what i can or cant talk to my friends about.


whenever a tc sites lack of safety in an open cyprus the gc says dont worry you have the eu to protect you,poppycock !!
if it all goes belly up in cyprus what can the eu do ?send the troops in ?
i suspect all they can do is kick you out of the eu

Keep talking. Sooner or later we will find something to agree on.

Cyprus should be the Republic of Cyprus and not 'TRNC' and 'mini Greece'. In an 'open Cyprus' as you put it there is plenty of room for both GC and TC as well as the other minorities including EU citizens relocation to Cyprus.

Things won't go 'belly up'. I'm 100% certain it won't. Look at Germany... people must forgive but refuse to forget in order to avoid it from happening again. And they must also realise that the younger generation has nothing to do with what their parents or grandparents did all those years ago. To forgive but keep remembering is the key to move on. It's going to cost to 'upgrade' parts of the occupied territory though, but it will be paid with Euros and not in blood.

I'm not telling you what you can and can't talk to your friends about. I'm merely suggesting that with true friends you can't speak about virtually anything. With true friends you can agree to disagree.

If you have GC friends you must admit that they have qualities good enough to consider them friends right? That's what counts innit? Everything else is just superficial. If those GC friends of yours aren't murderous EOKA-B supporters... couldn't there be a good chance that the GC's you don't already know are just as good as them?

Ok, you don't trust the EU. But can you really trust Turkey? They have already managed to make you a minority in our own 'country'. This is a fact! And it's a f'ing disgrace... Turkey has abused her role as a guarantor... big time. What if she sometime in the future decides that TC's cannot own property but must rent from a Turk? Perhaps not that likely, but would you agree that it is possible?

Would you feel better if/when Turkey is a member of the EU? Would you prefer that the SBA's were converted into territory to be used for an EU joint force? You could have Cypriot (GC and TC), Greek, Turkish, British, Swedish, German, French, Spanish etc military down there. They would protect you from the GC's (if it would make you feel better) but their primary duty would be to protect the whole of Cyprus from foreign threats.

I'm just popping ideas here because something has to be done in order to make you feel safe until you lot realise that you actually are. And no, you can't have Turkish troops remaining on the island. Not unless it's in the shape and form of the aforementioned EU joint force and if it's approved by the Cypriot (again GC's and TC's) people.

[Agios Ionas]

whenever a tc sites lack of safety in an open cyprus the gc says dont worry you have the eu to protect you,poppycock !!
if it all goes belly up in cyprus what can the eu do ?send the troops in ?
i suspect all they can do is kick you out of the eu

What year must come to pass before you believe all the EOKA murderers from 1963 or 1974 will be dead or too old to harm the TCs ?

2010 ? 2020 ?

It seems like the ghosts of the past will live forever inside the heads of some people.