Cyprus-Forum.com

[phoenix]

Bananiot for somebody like me who is not practiced in politics it's really important that you are honest about your sources and distinguish between your own opinions and facts.

If it wasn't for Kifeas pointing out the fallacy of your arguments I would be a very disillusioned and disappointed reader.

[MR-from-NG]

Bananiot for somebody like me who is not practiced in politics it's really important that you are honest about your sources and distinguish between your own opinions and facts.

If it wasn't for Kifeas pointing out the fallacy of your arguments I would be a very disillusioned and disappointed reader.

More than anything else Isn't it just a simple case of you and Kifeas being in the same camp? The camp that hate anything Turkish? The same camp that is living in denial?

Bananiot is worth a thousand Kifeas, Pissartist, Sotos and phoenix.

He does not stick his head in sand and can see a bigger picture than all of you put together.

[Daemon]

TPapKOLOS WILL NOT go to the second round; he will get less than 30%. Christofias will get above 32 and Kasoulides above 31 since the 2-3% of the students is not counted but also in the end many will vote for their party like in the past.

PapadoKOLOS is taking 30% with his entire fanatic and pre-decided powers and with a 30% of unsure vote, that are DISI and AKEL supporters that the most of them will vote their party.

[Pyrpolizer]

Just digest it people:
a)If we accepted the Anan Plan we would lose everything even our properties and get a costly partition.
b)If we dared challemge anything at the EU Turkey would "intervene" once again and depart the occupied areas before they even had returned a single village to our refugees.

You are right Pyrpolizer.

The Annan Plan was nothing more that a disguised and costly partition. If we had accepted the Annan plan today we would be trying to solve the much bigger Cyprus Problem that we would have, with much less means (no RoC to even voice our problems in EU or UN).

I personally need a President who will fight for my rights. Papadopoulos proved he is only good for farting.
The question is will Christofias or Kasoulides fight for my rights??? I have my doubts for them too but as the Turks say it's all yazi-tura now (toos-up)

Pyrpolizer, the choices at the current time are limited. No president of small Cyprus is a superhuman that can do miracles.

The choices:

1) Suicide and accept a disguised partition like Annan plan. If we do that, instead of having one legal state (RoC) and one illegal pseudo state ("trnc") we would have two pseudo states, with no international voice since the international and common decisions would all be taken by foreigners instead of democratically by the Cypriot people.

2) Continuation of the current situation, which is bad, but still better than option (1), and also allows the possibility for a fair solution in the future under a different balance of power.

So what do you choose?

2/3rds of the island of Cyprus as free independent democratic state, with another third legally ours but currently under illegal occupation.

OR

2/3rds of the island of Cyprus as a pseudo state without international voice, in a much worst economic condition, and with no prospects of ever recovering what we lost with the war of 1974 since we would have now officially signed them away.

Thats your choices.

Hey Piratis the topic was whether we will choose Papadopoulos once again, not what choices do we have towards a solution. I clearly said I will not.

As for your question you have to remember that time is NOT working in our favor and I include the well meaning TCs in the word "our". As Birkibrisli said a few pages back Rome is burning as we speak.

I don't agree with your opinion that the balance of powers is so much against us that we cannot achieve a solution.
Secondly waiting for an unforseeable time in the future, for the balance of power to shift so much in our favor, that we will have everything our way, tends to underestimate how dynamic the present situation is, and that Rome is already burning, and there might be nothing left after 50 years to save anyway. Let's not forget what is going on among our young generations. Nobody cares Piratis, they say it directly they have no connection, no feelings for the occupied part of Cyprus.

Imo we have a maximum of 5-10 years left, before the situation becomes totally irrevocable both by changes on the ground and by changes in peoples brains and hearts.

[Piratis]

Just digest it people:
a)If we accepted the Anan Plan we would lose everything even our properties and get a costly partition.
b)If we dared challemge anything at the EU Turkey would "intervene" once again and depart the occupied areas before they even had returned a single village to our refugees.

You are right Pyrpolizer.

The Annan Plan was nothing more that a disguised and costly partition. If we had accepted the Annan plan today we would be trying to solve the much bigger Cyprus Problem that we would have, with much less means (no RoC to even voice our problems in EU or UN).

I personally need a President who will fight for my rights. Papadopoulos proved he is only good for farting.
The question is will Christofias or Kasoulides fight for my rights??? I have my doubts for them too but as the Turks say it's all yazi-tura now (toos-up)

Pyrpolizer, the choices at the current time are limited. No president of small Cyprus is a superhuman that can do miracles.

The choices:

1) Suicide and accept a disguised partition like Annan plan. If we do that, instead of having one legal state (RoC) and one illegal pseudo state ("trnc") we would have two pseudo states, with no international voice since the international and common decisions would all be taken by foreigners instead of democratically by the Cypriot people.

2) Continuation of the current situation, which is bad, but still better than option (1), and also allows the possibility for a fair solution in the future under a different balance of power.

So what do you choose?

2/3rds of the island of Cyprus as free independent democratic state, with another third legally ours but currently under illegal occupation.

OR

2/3rds of the island of Cyprus as a pseudo state without international voice, in a much worst economic condition, and with no prospects of ever recovering what we lost with the war of 1974 since we would have now officially signed them away.

Thats your choices.

Hey Piratis the topic was whether we will choose Papadopoulos once again, not what choices do we have towards a solution. I clearly said I will not.

As for your question you have to remember that time is NOT working in our favor and I include the well meaning TCs in the word "our". As Birkibrisli said a few pages back Rome is burning as we speak.

I don't agree with your opinion that the balance of powers is so much against us that we cannot achieve a solution.
Secondly waiting for an unforseeable time in the future, for the balance of power to shift so much in our favor, that we will have everything our way, tends to underestimate how dynamic the present situation is, and that Rome is already burning, and there might be nothing left after 50 years to save anyway. Let's not forget what is going on among our young generations. Nobody cares Piratis, they say it directly they have no connection, no feelings for the occupied part of Cyprus.

Imo we have a maximum of 5-10 years left, before the situation becomes totally irrevocable both by changes on the ground and by changes in peoples brains and hearts.

The choices we have regarding the solution are directly related to the choice we make during the presidential elections.

Today and during the short term future there is no possibility that an acceptable solution can be agreed. The choice is between (1) a bad "solution" that will be a worst kind of partition than what we have now and will all but eliminate any prospects for liberating the north part of our country but also will make as lose all the control over our international affairs and bankrupt our economy, or (2) no solution.

If you think that Christofias or Kasouledes or anybody else can magically make the UK and Turkey to accept a fair solution for the Cyprus Problem under the current balance of power then you are dreaming. What Christofias/Kasoulides would do is either follow the same policy as Papadopoulos did, or bring back a re-cooked Annan plan.

I know the difficulties about the Cyprus Problem. The question you should ask yourself is: Do we stay with the "very difficult", or do we suicide and make it even worst? The option of "good" or "better" today simply does not exist. The choice is between the "bad" and the "worst".

[-mikkie2-]

"ATTACHMENT 3: LETTER TO THE SECRETARY-GENERAL OF THE COUNCIL OF EUROPE [to be sent upon entry into force of Foundation Agreement]"

Absolute RUBBISH yet again! This letter to the EU was a joke! Now way can any state suspend fundamental basic human rights! This letter could not stop a GC or a TC from resorting to the European courts for proper restitution if they felt any 'domestic remedy' was against their fundamental human right to enjoy their own property wherever it may be located.

Anyway, the letter was to be sent by the UCR for the considerration of the EU and the CoE. What do you think they would do? Accept such a statement to suspend the human rights of EU citizens?

[-mikkie2-]

A 'bad' agreed solution can be changed for the better later.

A 'worst' solution, of waiting and waiting until the geopolitical scene in the middle east changes and balance of power shifts is like pissing in the wind. We need a solution NOW, not in 10, 20 or 30 years time when we will have a million Turks in the north bursting at the seams.

[BirKibrisli]

A 'bad' agreed solution can be changed for the better later.

A 'worst' solution, of waiting and waiting until the geopolitical scene in the middle east changes and balance of power shifts is like pissing in the wind. We need a solution NOW, not in 10, 20 or 30 years time when we will have a million Turks in the north bursting at the seams.

You are right, Mikkie.
But no one is listening ,mate. If we as Cypriots had more sense we would return to the only agreement we ever signed,the Constitution of the Republic of Cyprus and implement it fully from a predetermined date. Then we can work to make it more democratic and more fair for all Cypriots. You know what? There is NO legal obstacles to stop us from doing that. Just the bloodymindedness of our heads...

[Daemon]

is like pissing in the wind

This is what we are generally doing the past years (some people do that for their whole life).

Our last hope is Europe and USA where everyone is laughing or spitting at Tap, if we have a chance this is with a different president that the foreigners will be able to respect and trust and not a mental sick lunatic that even him can’t understand what he is saying where every second thing he say it contradicts with the first(even Makarios have said what if he didn’t know him he could believe what he said, pointing what he is so deep in shit and lies that almost everything he says is a contradiction). The situation is with this donkey face lunatic is redicoulous.

[Piratis]

A 'bad' agreed solution can be changed for the better later.

A 'worst' solution, of waiting and waiting until the geopolitical scene in the middle east changes and balance of power shifts is like pissing in the wind. We need a solution NOW, not in 10, 20 or 30 years time when we will have a million Turks in the north bursting at the seams.

Mikkie, you seem to be confused by the wording.

What is a solution? A solution is what solves a problem.

A so called "bad solution" like the Annan plan, in fact is not a solution at all, since not only it didn't solve the problem, but it would make it bigger and more complicated.

When was the last time that an agreement was changed in our favor? Or you trying to give to the Turks another excuse to start troubles again like they did in 63?

If the balance of power will need to change once to get what is legally ours it will need to change 10 times as much to get what will by that time be legally Turkish because we were stupid enough to sign away our rights and land to them.

Not only that, but if we accept something like the Annan plan we will not even have a voice internationaly. We will have some "constituent state" made out of 2/3rd of Cyprus, officially partitioned from the by then legal "trnc" (under a different name), and we will just be loosely associated to each other by some foreign controlled "central government" which of course will never support our struggle for justice since TCs will be able to block every such effort. So not even our country would support us since we would have no control over it, even if we are the 82% of the population!

And while our problem will be bigger than ever, the UN, EU and everybody else will of course consider the Cyprus Problem as solved. So if we even say "Hey, you know this is unfair and we want it changed" they will just laugh on our face and tell us that the Cyprus Problem is now solved, and if there was something we didn't like we shouldn't have agreed to it.