Cyprus-Forum.com

[Kikapu]

So what do you tell someone who has 2 Turkish parents but was born and grew up in Cyprus Piratis? That Cyprus isn't their home afterall and that they have to go to Turkey and start a new life?

Thats nutts....

Only few countries around the world gives a child born on their territory an immediate citizenship, USA being one of them. I do not believe Cyprus is one of them, but it does not mean automatic expulsion either. I believe the "settlers problem" will resolve itself once the property that they now occupy free of charge which belongs to the GC's are given back, and the high cost of living on the island, will become beyond most settlers budget to stick around in Cyprus, therefore large majority will go back to Turkey with what ever compensation they can get. It will most definitely be cheaper for Turkey to ship her people back to Turkey than build a new life for them ground up with a property in their own name. In the example you have given T_C, the parents have absolute no right to remain on the island, since they came in illegally, despite what ever CopperLine says. These are not people without a country. They are not refugees. They are not "lost" people. They are not victims of a war. No, they are all full citizens of Turkey, no question about it, and their fate stays at the hands of the Turkish Government.

[T_C]

Says who that they have no right to remain on the island? GCs?

[CopperLine]

Piratis
Wrong again. You have the habit of substituting what you think should be the case for what is actually the case. So you claim that

'They are citizens of Turkey and Turkey is responsible for them, not us.'

Basically a citizen outside their country might have expected to receive the protection of their own state, but the home state does not owe that citizen an obligation to protect. So if you leave Cyprus and go and live in the UK you cannot demand that Cyprus protect you nor let alone take responsibility for you actions. This is basic stuff. And if you are no longer a citizen of the original/birth state then you can't claim anything at all.

You might think that morally Turkey has a responsibility for erstwhile Turkish citizens but it does not have a legal responsibility. And there are lots of cases where states have had clear moral responsibilities to their erstwhile citizens living permanently or semi-permanently outside the home country, and have 'abandoned' them. The history of the end of the British and French empires are littered with such cases. Incidentally Cypriots, on the whole, did not fall foul of this practice following independence - Cypriots being sufficiently white to be on the 'inside' of Britain's racist immigration and citizenship laws.

[CopperLine]

I agree with Kikapu that the most important determinant of who will stay in Cyprus, who will come to Cyprus, who will leave Cyprus and in what numbers will not be tempting offers of citizenship but the basic economic conditions, the cost of living, the wage rates, and the broader quality of life.

If there are currently subsidies for Turkish citizens to move to Cyprus - and I don't know if there are (Nikitas' response on this was based on surmise, not on evidence, as he said) - if those subsidies were to be removed then Cyprus becomes a lot less attractive to them, yes ? If Turkey was in the EU why would Turkish citizens want to move to Cyprus, as opposed to the richer, higher earning, greater job opportunity countries of the EU ? (That's another argument as to why Cyprus should support Turkey's application to the EU, If GCs don't want Turkish citizens in Cyprus then help them go somewhere else !)

All in all, draconian legal solution of expulsion, deportation or other forced removal of Turkish 'settlers' is inhumane, illegal, very expensive, unenforceable and simply perpetuates the trauma. But that is what some people are calling a 'just and fair solution'

[zan]

Piratis
Wrong again. You have the habit of substituting what you think should be the case for what is actually the case. So you claim that

'They are citizens of Turkey and Turkey is responsible for them, not us.'

Basically a citizen outside their country might have expected to receive the protection of their own state, but the home state does not owe that citizen an obligation to protect. So if you leave Cyprus and go and live in the UK you cannot demand that Cyprus protect you nor let alone take responsibility for you actions. This is basic stuff. And if you are no longer a citizen of the original/birth state then you can't claim anything at all.

You might think that morally Turkey has a responsibility for erstwhile Turkish citizens but it does not have a legal responsibility. And there are lots of cases where states have had clear moral responsibilities to their erstwhile citizens living permanently or semi-permanently outside the home country, and have 'abandoned' them. The history of the end of the British and French empires are littered with such cases. Incidentally Cypriots, on the whole, did not fall foul of this practice following independence - Cypriots being sufficiently white to be on the 'inside' of Britain's racist immigration and citizenship laws.

I didn't even bother to read past the first sentence of Piratis' post but I got the gist........He seems to think that Turkey had these people transfered by gun point and not by offering them a better life.......Perhaps he is in agreement that the £10 immigrants that were encouraged to go to Australia should also be deported from there

[phoenix]

The simple reductiionist approach as far as I see it ....

Yes the settlers may have been tempted by Turkey to come to Cyprus but ignorance is no excuse for breaking the Law .... so no special dispensations. They have to go back to Turkey (they are obviously the types for whom relocation is not a big shock so they will be fine).

Secondly, on the grounds that they have been in Cyprus a long time and may be married to Turkish Cypriots .... no special dispensation I am afraid. Since any Turkish Cypriots they may have become attached to are traitors, so the settlers are traitors and illegal immigrants .... so no favours they have to go back to Turkey.

All Turk-TC traitors back to Turkey or face disciplinary charges for betraying Cyprus / RoC to Turkey.

[CopperLine]

Phoenix the Nazi is back.

[zan]

The simple reductiionist approach as far as I see it ....

Yes the settlers may have been tempted by Turkey to come to Cyprus but ignorance is no excuse for breaking the Law .... so no special dispensations. They have to go back to Turkey (they are obviously the types for whom relocation is not a big shock so they will be fine).

Secondly, on the grounds that they have been in Cyprus a long time and may be married to Turkish Cypriots .... no special dispensation I am afraid. Since any Turkish Cypriots they may have become attached to are traitors, so the settlers are traitors and illegal immigrants .... so no favours they have to go back to Turkey.

All Turk-TC traitors back to Turkey or face disciplinary charges for betraying Cyprus / RoC to Turkey.

And the law is no excuse for ignorance........Give us back our Cyprus Republic.....

Copperline Wrote:

Phoenix the Nazi is back.

The Nazis' did not wander around aimlessly like Pheonix does....

[phoenix]

So Turkey's actions are what .....

The Fascist Nazi actions are those of Turkey and Turk-TCs that are trying to divide our island and separate people into categories.

Identifying the problem does not make me a Nazi you agent provocateur ....

[zan]

So Turkey's actions are what .....

The Fascist Nazi actions are those of Turkey and Turk-TCs that are trying to divide our island and separate people into categories.

Identifying the problem does not make me a Nazi you agent provocateur ....

They are the protectors of a battered wife........You can't behave yourself so you have been sent out of the family home......When you come to terms with your crimes then we can talk again but you seem to be entrenched in your crimes...