Cyprus-Forum.com

[BC Numismatics]

again, i suggest to you a solution which respects the principals of the Constitution of 1960, that is Bicommunal, having a State as well as two National Assemblies. and as i have explained to you Bizonal, meaning a geographic condition where it is possible to have settlers and the displaced accomadated as communities, where the fabric of both societies are not torn, and where, through the founding of enclaves across the island, each gains in diversity and in its vitality.

Repulsewarrior,that's not feasible.It is better to divide Cyprus up into provinces similar to the Canadian system.The Cypriot Parliament itself should consist of the President,the Vice-President,& a bicameral National Assembly (House of Representatives & Senate).

The highest court in Cyprus should be the Constitutional Court,which would have the power to examine the Bills passed by the National Assembly prior to being presented for signature by the President.

Aidan.

[repulsewarrior]

I am glad you have put some thought in resolution, and I thank-you for your reply.

Allow me to explain further:

in my Cyprus the Republic (our State and the dedender of our Individual Rights) will have a bicameral legislature with each citizen having three votes: one, to elect an independant candidate as their representative in a Lower House voting by consensus, having a Speaker, and seats at all Government Commitees. and The Upper House, ruled by its President who is the leader of a Party which has won a majority of seats in this chamber equally divided, where each citizen voting from two slates (with their remaining two votes) to choose their "Greek" representative and their "Turkish" representative for their riding, from the candidates the Parties offer (by necessity, if you will,) "Turkish" as well as "Greek". (Under this model note, it is entirely possible to have a Turkish Cypriot president, and his/her Greek Cypriot vice-president.).

If our Constitution is amended (that of 1960), the Communal chamber and the Municipal Laws can be revoked. In its place, Cyprus now being, as I described Bizonal, will have as two Jurisdictions, two National Assemblies which are mutually exclusive, recognising the equality of its citizens each having an equal vote, each Assembly respecting its ethnic minority(ies) within their territory, as each seeks to sustain itself.

Thus our State is free from cultural bias, rather, our diversity is used as a countervailing power, to protect our Individualism, while in our country's Internal Affairs, as persons we can reciprocate our inclusiveness, having a sense of responsibility toward minorities, in two societies (both societies), having their distinctiveness, as well as their own representation.

nothing is easier,

take a map of Cyprus as it is divided today. scatter across it a bagful of jewels (these are the enclaves), allow for those in the north to be administered by the Grecophone Assembly, and allow those in the south to be "Turkish". Allow everyone to identify themselves within this framework, first as this island's dwellers, as Cypriots, not monoclonal but having a nationality as well, and allow them to live without a military state

consider with an open mind how this framework allows us association, expression and movement.

You will agree I hope that this will redeem us all from the errors (pride) and the ignorance (bloodshead) of the past, with or without the criminals being charged.
It allows the displaced, for many, the return of their Patrimony (as communities), and for many a chance to return to their homes (as a minority, but having an equal vote).
It allows for those who will be displaced (many Settlers and others) as settlement, homes, and a wider array of choices which are clear.
It allows for each society within itself greater diversity, and a vitality which will serve in it making choices from a wider array of competing forces.
It allows for citizens to be closer to their taxdollars, although there are a greater number of government representatives.

[BirKibrisli]

Isn't it sad that the British managed to become Americans in 500 years,but we could not become Cypriots in 10,000 years???

Isn't it sad that the British managed to become Australians in just over 200 years,but we are still Greeks and Turks,after 3500 and 500 years???

Isn't it sad that people who live in Isreal are Israelis, in Egypt Egyptians,
in Kazakistan Kazaks,in Greece Greeks,in Turkey Turks,but people who live in Cyprus insist on identifying themselves as leftovers of two other nations????

Isn't it sad that we are probably the only nation on earth who keep denying our own unique national identity????

Isn't it just too bloody sad???????

[MR-from-NG]

Isn't it sad that the British managed to become Americans in 500 years,but we could not become Cypriots in 10,000 years???

Isn't it sad that the British managed to become Australians in just over 200 years,but we are still Greeks and Turks,after 3500 and 500 years???

Isn't it sad that people who live in Isreal are Israelis, in Egypt Egyptians,
in Kazakistan Kazaks,in Greece Greeks,in Turkey Turks,but people who live in Cyprus insist on identifying themselves as leftovers of two other nations????

Isn't it sad that we are probably the only nation on earth who keep denying our own unique national identity????

Isn't it just too bloody sad???????

Congratulations Bir, best post in a long long while. Don't you think the GCs are the biggest offenders of this crime? Just watch a football game or any event that would draw the mass crowds and see the number of Greek and Cypriot flags.

TCs are by no means innocent but the GCs are definitely the more guilty party.

[BirKibrisli]

Isn't it sad that the British managed to become Americans in 500 years,but we could not become Cypriots in 10,000 years???

Isn't it sad that the British managed to become Australians in just over 200 years,but we are still Greeks and Turks,after 3500 and 500 years???

Isn't it sad that people who live in Isreal are Israelis, in Egypt Egyptians,
in Kazakistan Kazaks,in Greece Greeks,in Turkey Turks,but people who live in Cyprus insist on identifying themselves as leftovers of two other nations????

Isn't it sad that we are probably the only nation on earth who keep denying our own unique national identity????

Isn't it just too bloody sad???????

Congratulations Bir, best post in a long long while. Don't you think the GCs are the biggest offenders of this crime? Just watch a football game or any event that would draw the mass crowds and see the number of Greek and Cypriot flags.

TCs are by no means innocent but the GCs are definitely the more guilty party.

Hello,MR...Good to hear from you. I think it is very sad that some people insist on seeing Cyprus as "a Greek island"...I give up,mate...

[Kifeas]

Isn't it sad that the British managed to become Americans in 500 years,but we could not become Cypriots in 10,000 years???

Isn't it sad that the British managed to become Australians in just over 200 years,but we are still Greeks and Turks,after 3500 and 500 years???

Isn't it sad that people who live in Isreal are Israelis, in Egypt Egyptians,
in Kazakistan Kazaks,in Greece Greeks,in Turkey Turks,but people who live in Cyprus insist on identifying themselves as leftovers of two other nations????

Isn't it sad that we are probably the only nation on earth who keep denying our own unique national identity????

Isn't it just too bloody sad???????

Congratulations Bir, best post in a long long while. Don't you think the GCs are the biggest offenders of this crime? Just watch a football game or any event that would draw the mass crowds and see the number of Greek and Cypriot flags.

TCs are by no means innocent but the GCs are definitely the more guilty party.

Hello,MR...Good to hear from you. I think it is very sad that some people insist on seeing Cyprus as "a Greek island"...I give up,mate...

To the best of my understanding, when Greek Cypriots refer to themselves as Greeks, the majority of them basically identify themselves with the broader and rather historical Greek or Hellenic cultural identity, and not so much with Greece as a political and legal “nation-state” entity! We feel that our (Greek) Cypriot cultural identity is just one such component of this broader historical Greek cultural identity, and definitely not something separate or outside of it! What it definitely does not mean or imply is that we are willing to tolerate or have ever allowed any internal involvement, or follow directives from any mainland Greek governments, more so when our own interests are in conflict! This is something that has been proved in numerous occasions over the last decades, not to say that Greece –at least since 1974, has shown any interest in getting involved in our internal affairs, or has ever attempted to “shepherd” us internationally! Instead, and as a matter of fact, there were many cases to the opposite direction, especially after 1974! With the exception of the 1959 London-Zurich agreements and the 1974 coup -in which violent means by a non-democratic junta government were attempted and utilized in order to impose “Greece’s” will on us, there is hardly any other example to be mentioned against the above!

In view of the above, I believe TCs should not feel so threatened by the fact that Greek Cypriots emphasize the Greek part of their identity, because the vast majority of GCs are not willing to sacrifice or put in a second tier or fate their political independence, in the name of Greece as a separate nation-state! There are many countries nowadays that are composed by multiple cultural identities which are all expressed in the everyday life of these countries, yet, these countries do exist and function as entities without major problems! Australia and the US are such prime examples, especially the later! Great Britain is another one such example, with English, Welsh, Irish and Scots forming one nation state, yet they maintain their separate cultural and ethnic identities!

Going back to the example of Australia, I would like to remind Birkibrisli that they (Australians) still maintain the queen of England as the head of their nation-state, and they even have the British flag as an inlaid of the Aus flag! At least in our case, allegiance with Greece is more a private thing, and is not institutionalized in any way or form, unlike Australia. Furthermore, I am sure if England and France reach the final of the world cup; the vast majority of Australians of Anglo-Saxon origin will seat in front of their TV sets and will support France to win the cup, many of them with French flags as well! Have I got it right?

[MR-from-NG]

Isn't it sad that the British managed to become Americans in 500 years,but we could not become Cypriots in 10,000 years???

Isn't it sad that the British managed to become Australians in just over 200 years,but we are still Greeks and Turks,after 3500 and 500 years???

Isn't it sad that people who live in Isreal are Israelis, in Egypt Egyptians,
in Kazakistan Kazaks,in Greece Greeks,in Turkey Turks,but people who live in Cyprus insist on identifying themselves as leftovers of two other nations????

Isn't it sad that we are probably the only nation on earth who keep denying our own unique national identity????

Isn't it just too bloody sad???????

Congratulations Bir, best post in a long long while. Don't you think the GCs are the biggest offenders of this crime? Just watch a football game or any event that would draw the mass crowds and see the number of Greek and Cypriot flags.

TCs are by no means innocent but the GCs are definitely the more guilty party.

Hello,MR...Good to hear from you. I think it is very sad that some people insist on seeing Cyprus as "a Greek island"...I give up,mate...

To the best of my understanding, when Greek Cypriots refer to themselves as Greeks, the majority of them basically identify themselves with the broader and rather historical Greek or Hellenic cultural identity, and not so much with Greece as a political and legal “nation-state” entity! We feel that our (Greek) Cypriot cultural identity is just one such component of this broader historical Greek cultural identity, and definitely not something separate or outside of it! What it definitely does not mean or imply is that we are willing to tolerate or have ever allowed any internal involvement, or follow directives from any mainland Greek governments, more so when our own interests are in conflict! This is something that has been proved in numerous occasions over the last decades, not to say that Greece –at least since 1974, has shown any interest in getting involved in our internal affairs, or has ever attempted to “shepherd” us internationally! Instead, and as a matter of fact, there were many cases to the opposite direction, especially after 1974! With the exception of the 1959 London-Zurich agreements and the 1974 coup -in which violent means by a non-democratic junta government were attempted and utilized in order to impose “Greece’s” will on us, there is hardly any other example to be mentioned against the above!

In view of the above, I believe TCs should not feel so threatened by the fact that Greek Cypriots emphasize the Greek part of their identity, because the vast majority of GCs are not willing to sacrifice or put in a second tier or fate their political independence, in the name of Greece as a separate nation-state! There are many countries nowadays that are composed by multiple cultural identities which are all expressed in the everyday life of these countries, yet, these countries do exist and function as entities without major problems! Australia and the US are such prime examples, especially the later! Great Britain is another one such example, with English, Welsh, Irish and Scots forming one nation state, yet they maintain their separate cultural and ethnic identities!

Going back to the example of Australia, I would like to remind Birkibrisli that they (Australians) still maintain the queen of England as the head of their nation-state, and they even have the British flag as an inlaid of the Aus flag! At least in our case, allegiance with Greece is more a private thing, and is not institutionalized in any way or form, unlike Australia. Furthermore, I am sure if England and France reach the final of the world cup; the vast majority of Australians of Anglo-Saxon origin will seat in front of their TV sets and will support France to win the cup, many of them with French flags as well! Have I got it right?

Thanks for that Kifeas. You've explained it articulately and in great detail.

[miltiades]

Isn't it sad that the British managed to become Americans in 500 years,but we could not become Cypriots in 10,000 years???

Isn't it sad that the British managed to become Australians in just over 200 years,but we are still Greeks and Turks,after 3500 and 500 years???

Isn't it sad that people who live in Isreal are Israelis, in Egypt Egyptians,
in Kazakistan Kazaks,in Greece Greeks,in Turkey Turks,but people who live in Cyprus insist on identifying themselves as leftovers of two other nations????

Isn't it sad that we are probably the only nation on earth who keep denying our own unique national identity????

Isn't it just too bloody sad???????

Congratulations Bir, best post in a long long while. Don't you think the GCs are the biggest offenders of this crime? Just watch a football game or any event that would draw the mass crowds and see the number of Greek and Cypriot flags.

TCs are by no means innocent but the GCs are definitely the more guilty party.

Hello,MR...Good to hear from you. I think it is very sad that some people insist on seeing Cyprus as "a Greek island"...I give up,mate...

Well at least Bir we saw the light years ago and saw the goodness in our Cypriotness , ditched away our chains and as free men we tell the world that WE ARE CYPRIOTS first and foremost my dear brother , same sentiments to my dear friend MR-from-NG .

[repulsewarrior]

sadly i too am getting tired, and since my attempts at getting beyond the impasse have very little impact i'm afraid of the truth as well. Both sides have to get their shit together, i hope we all agree, but it is up to the "greeks" to get beyond this nature, they are the vast majority by population. the idiot greek Sampson and his cohorts may well have their satisfaction. A partition suits the needs of everyone, but Cypriots. Cyprus will be no more. It will become a name unsaid; just like the island Haiti and the Dominican Republic are on. And we the living, on it, will be held in infamy for the rest of time as the pluderers of its relics and its history. Being "Greek", or "Turkish" is far more complex than having an identity related to a land. Both Greece and Turkey are modern States, having little to do, comparitavely, with this identity, Greek or Turk. Cyprus is all together different because its people have always lived under the subjugation of others (except for a few very short moments which were glorious), as its stewards they survived. Cypriots are a construct of Modern Man, like going to the moon, it was an acheivement of engineering in the Modern Age, that should represent our evolution as Human beings. If it does not fructify it will indicate a decline in this civilization, because we, as its people failed in our service to its principals, and in our Grace, to struggle with ourselves, to be generous and to rise above this "Greek"/ "Turkish" (etc.) thing.

[repulsewarrior]

again, i suggest to you a solution which respects the principals of the Constitution of 1960, that is Bicommunal, having a State as well as two National Assemblies. and as i have explained to you Bizonal, meaning a geographic condition where it is possible to have settlers and the displaced accomadated as communities, where the fabric of both societies are not torn, and where, through the founding of enclaves across the island, each gains in diversity and in its vitality.

Repulsewarrior,that's not feasible.It is better to divide Cyprus up into provinces similar to the Canadian system.The Cypriot Parliament itself should consist of the President,the Vice-President,& a bicameral National Assembly (House of Representatives & Senate).

The highest court in Cyprus should be the Constitutional Court,which would have the power to examine the Bills passed by the National Assembly prior to being presented for signature by the President.

Aidan.

...we have a history of enclaves, it can be said that the advent of Turkish Cypriot Society was founded because of the creation of these entities. With enclaves cooperation is greatly encouraged amongst all communities on the island, big and small, if each must consider the reciprocal consequence of acting otherwise, and people as townsfolk will have more independance in their affairs. It allows for the greatest diversity within each Community as peoples. And to our visitors, as well as ourselves, it will be a closer rendition of this island as a garden and something we love.