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POLITICAL EQUALITY IS CRUCIAL FOR TURKISH CYPRIOTS

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby halil » Fri May 30, 2008 1:32 pm

DT. wrote:
halil wrote:as far as i know they are agreed with Christofias 50-55 000 of them are going to stay . if calculations are correct .i dont see any problem .rest of them must be workers .


They haven't agreed anything. yet mate. Its a big issue over here.


DT ,
i have seen this news at Cyprus dialogue paper few weeks ago .İnterview was with Cyprus Peace movements leadrs whic they were visited Christofias at his palace . No one from the palace denied that report yet .
at the moment i am top of mountaines . it is diffucalt for me to search it now.
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Postby Piratis » Fri May 30, 2008 1:55 pm

halil wrote:We are talking about Cyprus ....Once upon a time There was a republic in Cyprus That TC's and GC's were partner !
we all know how it is established and why it is established ?we all know why it is destroyed ?
Thats things are different in Cyprus situations .There is no ways ?


Once upon a time there was the Cypriot people that was ruled by foreigners (Turks, British etc) who forced various crap on us, and the Cypriot people resisted and fought for their freedom and self determination.

The same thing continues today, and will continue for as long as the Turks and some others think that Cyprus is same special case where human rights and democracy can not be applied because it doesn't suit them.

Because you managed to force inequality and racism on our loss in the past this doesn't mean you will always be allowed to do it. We have the right to fight for what is right, and this is what we will continue to do.

So Halis, do you accept political equality as discribed in the documented I quoted above? Do you accept democracy where one person has one vote? Do you accept human rights for all? Do you accept that everybody should be allowed to live on his own land?

It is up to you if you will accept what is right and just so we can finally end this war. Don't hope that this war will end with us signing away our lands and rights to you.
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Postby Jerry » Fri May 30, 2008 2:09 pm

Piratis wrote:
halil wrote:We are talking about Cyprus ....Once upon a time There was a republic in Cyprus That TC's and GC's were partner !
we all know how it is established and why it is established ?we all know why it is destroyed ?
Thats things are different in Cyprus situations .There is no ways ?


Once upon a time there was the Cypriot people that was ruled by foreigners (Turks, British etc) who forced various crap on us, and the Cypriot people resisted and fought for their freedom and self determination.

The same thing continues today, and will continue for as long as the Turks and some others think that Cyprus is same special case where human rights and democracy can not be applied because it doesn't suit them.

Because you managed to force inequality and racism on our loss in the past this doesn't mean you will always be allowed to do it. We have the right to fight for what is right, and this is what we will continue to do.

So Halis, do you accept political equality as discribed in the documented I quoted above? Do you accept democracy where one person has one vote? Do you accept human rights for all? Do you accept that everybody should be allowed to live on his own land?

It is up to you if you will accept what is right and just so we can finally end this war. Don't hope that this war will end with us signing away our lands and rights to you.


Piratis you don't understand, the Turks have more guns and soldiers than the Greek Cypriots therefore they must be right. It's the law of the jungle for Cyprus and International law for democracies. We must be punished for ever for the mistakes of the past whilst the TCs are rewarded for theirs.
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Postby halil » Fri May 30, 2008 2:26 pm

Yes DT i found the news paper Date is 25 April-02 may 2008 .

sorry i have to type it . we have no scanner at mountain .

'YES' to 50 thousand Turks
Cyprus Dialogue discloses details of meeting between Christafias and Turkish Cypriot Organizations.

The details of 2.5 hour long meeting between the 'Cyprus Peace Platform' made up of Turkish Cypriot Civil Society Organizations and the Greek Cypriot leader Demetris Christofias has not been made public to this day .in fact ,some very important issues were discussed in relation to a solution to Cyprus problem .There is a great deal of convergence of views between Christofias and the civil society organizations.

Christofias and the organizations shared the following view regarding a solution to the Cyprus problem: A Bi-zonal,bi-communal federal solution on the Cyprus Constitution , the 1977-79 summit agreement and EU membership.

Talat Can bring the Annan Plan to the Negating Table:
Asked by representatives of TC organizations what kind of an approach he would adopt if Talat insisted on bringing the Annan Plan to the negotiating table,Christofias gave the following reply:
'' Talat can bring parts of or whole Annan Plan back to the negotiating table .He should state which parts he wants to negotiate.İ am ready to negotiate whatever part he wants but in the end the emerging solution will not include the Annan plan''

During the meeting which focused on issues such as demilitarization and Turkish Settlers,
Christofias was also said to have agreed that fifty thousand settlers could remain in Cyprus in the like hood of a solution.
'' although the list presented by the TC side during the Annan Plan period included 42 thousand people , that figure would have swelled to 116 thousand with their families . this we cant' accept.İ am prepared to accept
fifty thousand in total ,families and all included ....



DT ,
best thing is it will be better if they shares what their talking behind the closed doors than we can not talk with what the newspapers or others says ... i hope it did help little bit ....
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Postby DT. » Fri May 30, 2008 2:49 pm

halil wrote:Yes DT i found the news paper Date is 25 April-02 may 2008 .

sorry i have to type it . we have no scanner at mountain .

'YES' to 50 thousand Turks
Cyprus Dialogue discloses details of meeting between Christafias and Turkish Cypriot Organizations.

The details of 2.5 hour long meeting between the 'Cyprus Peace Platform' made up of Turkish Cypriot Civil Society Organizations and the Greek Cypriot leader Demetris Christofias has not been made public to this day .in fact ,some very important issues were discussed in relation to a solution to Cyprus problem .There is a great deal of convergence of views between Christofias and the civil society organizations.

Christofias and the organizations shared the following view regarding a solution to the Cyprus problem: A Bi-zonal,bi-communal federal solution on the Cyprus Constitution , the 1977-79 summit agreement and EU membership.

Talat Can bring the Annan Plan to the Negating Table:
Asked by representatives of TC organizations what kind of an approach he would adopt if Talat insisted on bringing the Annan Plan to the negotiating table,Christofias gave the following reply:
'' Talat can bring parts of or whole Annan Plan back to the negotiating table .He should state which parts he wants to negotiate.İ am ready to negotiate whatever part he wants but in the end the emerging solution will not include the Annan plan''

During the meeting which focused on issues such as demilitarization and Turkish Settlers,
Christofias was also said to have agreed that fifty thousand settlers could remain in Cyprus in the like hood of a solution.
'' although the list presented by the TC side during the Annan Plan period included 42 thousand people , that figure would have swelled to 116 thousand with their families . this we cant' accept.İ am prepared to accept
fifty thousand in total ,families and all included ....



DT ,
best thing is it will be better if they shares what their talking behind the closed doors than we can not talk with what the newspapers or others says ... i hope it did help little bit ....


Thanks for this. Strange meeting...the President and some TC groups??
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Postby 74LB » Fri May 30, 2008 4:56 pm

Piratis wrote:
halil wrote:We are talking about Cyprus ....Once upon a time There was a republic in Cyprus That TC's and GC's were partner !
we all know how it is established and why it is established ?we all know why it is destroyed ?
Thats things are different in Cyprus situations .There is no ways ?


Once upon a time there was the Cypriot people that was ruled by foreigners (Turks, British etc) who forced various crap on us, and the Cypriot people resisted and fought for their freedom and self determination.

The same thing continues today, and will continue for as long as the Turks and some others think that Cyprus is same special case where human rights and democracy can not be applied because it doesn't suit them.

Because you managed to force inequality and racism on our loss in the past this doesn't mean you will always be allowed to do it. We have the right to fight for what is right, and this is what we will continue to do.

So Halis, do you accept political equality as discribed in the documented I quoted above? Do you accept democracy where one person has one vote? Do you accept human rights for all? Do you accept that everybody should be allowed to live on his own land?

It is up to you if you will accept what is right and just so we can finally end this war. Don't hope that this war will end with us signing away our lands and rights to you.


I for one would accept democracy as you described it, and one-man one-vote is common place throughout the world. BUT, and this is where we tend to go round in circles.....

The TC's believe that in a one-man one-vote scenario, we (the TC's) will get shafted each and every time (in decisions that primarily affect the TC community).
Many people have come to this forum and said something like 'but hold, on, with 18-20% of the population you can be a very strong force, you will always be able to influence decisions' etc etc. But the crux of the matter is, the TC's don't believe this will happen. The belief is that voting will primarily be along ethnic lines, and the minorities will lose out each and every time. If you can allay these fears, then a truly acceptable solution will always be within reach.

Each persons priority is different.
Some want their land back so they can move back home. Some would rather have compensations for their land and stay where they are.
Some want all foreign troops to leave, and some would like them to stay.
Some talk of guarantor powers, some say never again.

I for one, am sure that all the above can be resolved to the satisfaction of the majority. But the biggest stumbling block (imo) is the view that one-man one-vote will be used against the TC's each and every time.
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Postby Kikapu » Fri May 30, 2008 5:44 pm

74LB wrote:
I for one would accept democracy as you described it, and one-man one-vote is common place throughout the world. BUT, and this is where we tend to go round in circles.....

The TC's believe that in a one-man one-vote scenario, we (the TC's) will get shafted each and every time (in decisions that primarily affect the TC community).
Many people have come to this forum and said something like 'but hold, on, with 18-20% of the population you can be a very strong force, you will always be able to influence decisions' etc etc. But the crux of the matter is, the TC's don't believe this will happen. The belief is that voting will primarily be along ethnic lines, and the minorities will lose out each and every time. If you can allay these fears, then a truly acceptable solution will always be within reach.

Each persons priority is different.
Some want their land back so they can move back home. Some would rather have compensations for their land and stay where they are.
Some want all foreign troops to leave, and some would like them to stay.
Some talk of guarantor powers, some say never again.

I for one, am sure that all the above can be resolved to the satisfaction of the majority. But the biggest stumbling block (imo) is the view that one-man one-vote will be used against the TC's each and every time.


I disagree with you 74LB. The only reason people will vote along ethnic lines, if they are divided along ethnic lines. If on the other hand, we have a truly united island, then people will vote on political ideological lines. This is why I would support doing away with all the political parties in Cyprus and form 3 main new ones, the Right, the Centrist and the Left, and let all Cypriots, regardless of their ethnicity belong to who they best align themselves with politically. This is how it works in the rest of the Democratic world. Party members are elected by their local constituents, which means you are going to have TC's and GC's in each and every of the main 3 parties. Therefore you are not going to have 80% V's 20%, but rather you are going to have the Right V's the Centrist V's the Left and all the other small ones which will play important part in forming a coalition.

Can you imagine a GC running for President also has a TC as a vice President, or vise versa. This will also give a good chance for a TC to become a President, elected directly or in the event of GC president leaving office before his time was due for many reasons. If Barak Obama can become the next President of the United States as a black man whose ethnic group make up only 10% of the United states, whose heritage goes back to slavery, then there is absolutely no reason why the TC's can't trust True Democracy. By having 2 states, north and south, and the TC's being the majority in the north in a True Federation, each states will also have certain rights that the Federal Government cannot interfere, as long as they are not in violation of any one's Human and Democratic Rights. The protection of all citizens will be protected by the Federal Government. I'm sorry, but I do not buy this voting by a block to vote anything that will be against the "minorities" in the country by the majority, and lets not forget, that we are also in the EU and not in some third world country for God sake.
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Postby 74LB » Fri May 30, 2008 6:40 pm

Kikapu, in an ideal world, what you say is fine and true. But trying to get rid of ethnicity at the click of a finger just won't happen. Regardless of what you say and how you put it, the TC's just do not believe that they will be treated in a fair and democratic way. Suspicion and mis-trust will always be on the back of their minds (and let me just say that the same may well apply to the GC's in that they are also suspicious and mis-trust the TC's just as much)

Even if you get rid of all political parties as you say, the forming of a new party or parties will have the same squables. Can you see the left for example picking a TC (Talat) to be the head rather than a GC (Christofias) ? As much as you and I would like to believe this can be so, I just cannot see either side buying into this. It will take many many years (of living together in peace) before this can come about.
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Postby Tony-4497 » Fri May 30, 2008 7:14 pm

Halil

TCs seem to want to have their pie and eat it.. they demand it all.. political equality and effectively a high degree of sovereignty/ control over their own state which will represent a large part of Cyprus etc..

However, 18% does not equal 82%... I have always said that a solution that grants the demanded political equality (at a "state" level) can only be found if it also limits the area of the TC state to a level much closer to the TC part of the Cyprus population i.e. around 20% (this is the "land for sovereignty" principle, which is also applied in the Middle East negotiations).

In the opposite case, GCs will never accept such a solution i.e. if they will vote at a referendum to legalise the theft of their homeland and (effectively) "TRNC" through an Annan plan type solution, they will need to feel that they are getting back a significant part of the stolen land (i.e. not just 7% per Annan), so that the whole thing will feel somewhat fair.

Are TCs (and more importantly Turkey) willing to hand back nearly half of the loot? Only then, in my view, would we have a deal that can pass a referendum in both sides.
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Postby Get Real! » Fri May 30, 2008 7:19 pm

halil wrote:DT,
you were so quick mate , settlers issuie is another matter . İt is very easy to solve it .

Soyer says to Christofias ''Don't waste this historic opportunity ''

What historic opportunity? :lol:

The "TRNC" economy is in shambles again, because after the successful prostitution of GC properties it all came to a halt a couple of years ago and has since been in a sharp decline. To say that you're desperate for change is an understatement. :roll:
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