Cyprus-Forum.com

[denizaksulu]

Had you bothered to read any of my past posts you would have in inkling where I stand.

After the attempted take over of Cyprus by the Greek junta (read Coup) Very rightly so Turkey intervened after having no success with Britain. I was very apprehensive about the whole thing but saw it as a necessary thing to do. It was welcomed by many, perhaps even by some Greek Cypriots as it put to stop the endless killing spree among the GC and G factions. Whatever happened afterwards was sad. The Turkish army now faced the joint forces of G and GC, coupists and opponents which resulted in the eventual division of the island. I am in no position to deny that the above mentioned attrocities never took place. I abhor all civilian casualties, ransacking and looting of private homes , religious buildings, businesses etc. I have seen many looted churches and cursed those responsible with tears in my eyes. I also do not approve of the 'dispossession of GCs of their properties. Matters should have never come to this.

Now Magnus, you be man enough and admit to the wrong doings of your side - whichever side that is. I am talking about the murders and rapes committed against TCs. Thank you.

At last! An excellent contribution!

First of all, let me say that I completely denounce any and all wrongdoings carried out against any innocent TCs by Greek and GC extremists and self-interested groups. I am not so naive as to think that 'our side' did not contain some very unpleasant individuals as their actions against their fellow GCs are enough to convince me.

Now to bring this back to topic, I am wondering if you (or other TCs on the forum) were aware of the atrocities being carried out by the Turkish army? Surely with some of the villages being of mixed composition, many TCs will have witnessed what happened.

Also, do you know of any reason why the Turkish army did not simply focus on their objective (to restore peace) and just stop the fighting but rather chose to commit such atrocities?

I understand your point about how they 'faced the joint forces of G and GC, coupists and opponents' but I don't understand why they took the time to carry out the attacks on innocent civilians. Also, when they attacked and dropped napalm on villages, how did they know that they wouldn't harm the people they were there to help (TCs)?

Personally, I was not aware of any of the above mentioned atrocities by the Turkish army. Only much later we began to hear rumours that not everything was hunky-dory.

To the straight thinking TC the events after the 'Intervention' are very puzzling. I visited Cyprus within a year of 1974 to find out about my relatives who had been refugees from the south. Some had been given GC houses to live in. All furniture and libraries were intact in 'his' house. In the GC library I came across a Greek dictionary. I was browsing through it and was told that I ought to put it back as the 'authorities' would shoot them. I did not know whether tot ake them seriously, but he added that he was told there would be peace soon and that everybody would be returning to their original homes. What changed after that? The politicians have a lot to answer for. At some stage negotiations broke down and here we find ourselves in this mess and the division was made permanent.

[Viewpoint]

Both sides have suffered and these acts are dispicable and grotesque.

Shouldnt you GCs be prosecuting those that pushed you into the fire, you had 11 years to build a united Cyprus yet you choose to exclude and discriminate against TCs to the benefit of purely GCs. You must have known that your own actions would have exploded in your faces and the consequences of which you complain today would have occured, surely no community can be that naive or did you believe Turkey would never come to the rescue of the TCs. Remember the songs "you waited but they didnt arrive" yuo GCs used to taunt us? Are you really saying that you expected to be handled with kid gloves after your vile acts against TCs?

[Bananiot]

I was watching a tv programme about Cypriots who fought with the allies in Italy. The presenter asked one of them to describe something that really struck out. The old soldier, without hesitation, immediately replied "the way the Poles killed Germans".

How can we be looking for justice in a war? War is all about taking lives and there is no way to feel at ease with this, even if the bad guys lose out.

It is true that the Turkish army went on a rampage, killing captives and spreading terror and fear in its passage. Yet, last April I attended the funeral of my fellow villager Kkitros who was laid to rest after so many years when his bones were eventually identified. Sevgul Uludag was there too. The nephew of Kkitros (a lawyer I believe) gave an unbelievably balanced speech, despite his sorrow. He told the large crowed that attended the funeral that the Turkish army started executing people after the mass graves were discovered in Aloa, Sandalaris and another village whose name I do not remember now. There, women and children were brutaly murdered by Greek Cypriots.

War brings the worse out of people. Everybody is capable of atrocities during war times. The Americans did it at Mi Lai in Vietnam and the cultured French behaved barbarously in Algeria. The Greek army in Asia minor was no better, according to Dido Soteriou (Matomena Chomata - also translated into Turkish. All must read this masterpiece). We took patients out of their hospital beds in 1963 and threw them down wells, after we put a bullet in their head.

It is the duty of all Cypriots to strive so that we and our childern and our childrens children do not have to go through this agony again. If we insist on counting who murdered more and who less we will be missing the point and end up like Piratis et al who think that justice is a matter of statistics. We need to bury the hatchet. We need peace here and now and now that a new effort is made we should be encouraging our leaders to move positively towards peace. The blame game feeds only the war monster. Even if things seem difficult we should never give up.

One final thought. There are bad people in both communities. We know who they are and it is up to us to cut their murdering hands. This can only be achieved if we get the peace we deserve. Otherwise we might as well feed the minautor of hate with more young blood.

[Kifeas]

I was watching a tv programme about Cypriots who fought with the allies in Italy. The presenter asked one of them to describe something that really struck out. The old soldier, without hesitation, immediately replied "the way the Poles killed Germans".

How can we be looking for justice in a war? War is all about taking lives and there is no way to feel at ease with this, even if the bad guys lose out.

It is true that the Turkish army went on a rampage, killing captives and spreading terror and fear in its passage. Yet, last April I attended the funeral of my fellow villager Kkitros who was laid to rest after so many years when his bones were eventually identified. Sevgul Uludag was there too. The nephew of Kkitros (a lawyer I believe) gave an unbelievably balanced speech, despite his sorrow. He told the large crowed that attended the funeral that the Turkish army started executing people after the mass graves were discovered in Aloa, Sandalaris and another village whose name I do not remember now. There, women and children were brutaly murdered by Greek Cypriots.

War brings the worse out of people. Everybody is capable of atrocities during war times. The Americans did it at Mi Lai in Vietnam and the cultured French behaved barbarously in Algeria. The Greek army in Asia minor was no better, according to Dido Soteriou (Matomena Chomata - also translated into Turkish. All must read this masterpiece). We took patients out of their hospital beds in 1963 and threw them down wells, after we put a bullet in their head.

It is the duty of all Cypriots to strive so that we and our childern and our childrens children do not have to go through this agony again. If we insist on counting who murdered more and who less we will be missing the point and end up like Piratis et al who think that justice is a matter of statistics. We need to bury the hatchet. We need peace here and now and now that a new effort is made we should be encouraging our leaders to move positively towards peace. The blame game feeds only the war monster. Even if things seem difficult we should never give up.

One final thought. There are bad people in both communities. We know who they are and it is up to us to cut their murdering hands. This can only be achieved if we get the peace we deserve. Otherwise we might as well fedd the minautor of hate with more young blood.

Bananiot, are you saying that the Turkish army "went on a rampage, killing captives and spreading terror and fear in its passage," only "after the mass graves were discovered in Aloa, Sandalaris and Maratha?

Let me tell you the truth, Bananiot. The Turkish Army, and I know this by fact (you know were I come from,) started executing, both civilians and captives, since the moment they landed in Cyprus on the 20th of July 1974, and until that day not even one single Turkish Cypriot was touched by either the coupists or anyone else from the rest of the Greek Cypriots. In fact, since 1967, hardly any single TC was killed by a GC bullet or otherwise, under any circumstances! The reason the Turkish army "went on a rampage," as you refer to it, from the moment they landed and established their bridgehead in Kyrenia, was because their aim was the terrorisation of the GC population to evacuate the north and flee south, in order to better facilitate their true aim for invading, which was the partition of Cyprus into two ethnically "purified" areas (read ethnic cleansing!) If their purpose was otherwise, i.e. to "save" the TCs and /or to "re-establish" the violated by the coupists constitutional order in the RoC (which they apparently had ceased to recognise since 1963, and not just on or after the 15th of July 1974 that the coup took place;) why -once their advertised "aim" or "mission" had been achieved, didn't they allow any of the GC refugees from the north to return back to their homes, and instead they sealed the north to any GC, with an iron curtain, for the next 30 years or so?

The massacres of Aloa, Sandalaris and Maratha did occur on the 14th of August 1974, the day the Turkish troops started their second offensive, almost one moth after they landed in Cyprus and carried out their first "peace operation." Under this context, why shouldn't one “rightfully claim” that the massacres by GC extremists against TC civilians in the 3 mentioned villages (and in other places such as Tochni,) weren't in-fact “revenge” to the previously committed atrocities by the Turkish army, between the 20 and 23rd of July 1974; instead of being the other way around as you make it sound?

[zan]

I was watching a tv programme about Cypriots who fought with the allies in Italy. The presenter asked one of them to describe something that really struck out. The old soldier, without hesitation, immediately replied "the way the Poles killed Germans".

How can we be looking for justice in a war? War is all about taking lives and there is no way to feel at ease with this, even if the bad guys lose out.

It is true that the Turkish army went on a rampage, killing captives and spreading terror and fear in its passage. Yet, last April I attended the funeral of my fellow villager Kkitros who was laid to rest after so many years when his bones were eventually identified. Sevgul Uludag was there too. The nephew of Kkitros (a lawyer I believe) gave an unbelievably balanced speech, despite his sorrow. He told the large crowed that attended the funeral that the Turkish army started executing people after the mass graves were discovered in Aloa, Sandalaris and another village whose name I do not remember now. There, women and children were brutaly murdered by Greek Cypriots.

War brings the worse out of people. Everybody is capable of atrocities during war times. The Americans did it at Mi Lai in Vietnam and the cultured French behaved barbarously in Algeria. The Greek army in Asia minor was no better, according to Dido Soteriou (Matomena Chomata - also translated into Turkish. All must read this masterpiece). We took patients out of their hospital beds in 1963 and threw them down wells, after we put a bullet in their head.

It is the duty of all Cypriots to strive so that we and our childern and our childrens children do not have to go through this agony again. If we insist on counting who murdered more and who less we will be missing the point and end up like Piratis et al who think that justice is a matter of statistics. We need to bury the hatchet. We need peace here and now and now that a new effort is made we should be encouraging our leaders to move positively towards peace. The blame game feeds only the war monster. Even if things seem difficult we should never give up.

One final thought. There are bad people in both communities. We know who they are and it is up to us to cut their murdering hands. This can only be achieved if we get the peace we deserve. Otherwise we might as well fedd the minautor of hate with more young blood.

Bananiot, are you saying that the Turkish army "went on a rampage, killing captives and spreading terror and fear in its passage," only "after the mass graves were discovered in Aloa, Sandalaris and Maratha?

Let me tell you the truth, Bananiot. The Turkish Army, and I know this by fact (you know were I come from,) started executing, both civilians and captives, since the moment they landed in Cyprus on the 20th of July 1974, and until that day not even one single Turkish Cypriot was touched by either the coupists or anyone else from the rest of the Greek Cypriots. In fact, since 1967, hardly any single TC was killed by a GC bullet or otherwise, under any circumstances! The reason the Turkish army "went on a rampage," as you refer to it, from the moment they landed and established their bridgehead in Kyrenia, was because their aim was the terrorisation of the GC population to evacuate the north and flee south, in order to better facilitate their true aim for invading, which was the partition of Cyprus into two ethnically "purified" areas (read ethnic cleansing!) If their purpose was otherwise, i.e. to "save" the TCs and /or to "re-establish" the violated by the coupists constitutional order in the RoC (which they apparently had ceased to recognise since 1963, and not just on or after the 15th of July 1974 that the coup took place;) why -once their advertised "aim" or "mission" had been achieved, didn't they allow any of the GC refugees from the north to return back to their homes, and instead they sealed the north to any GC, with an iron curtain, for the next 30 years or so?

The massacres of Aloa, Sandalaris and Maratha did occur on the 14th of August 1974, the day the Turkish troops started their second offensive, almost one moth after they landed in Cyprus and carried out their first "peace operation." Under this context, why shouldn't one “rightfully claim” that the massacres by GC extremists against TC civilians in the 3 mentioned villages (and in other places such as Tochni,) weren't in-fact “revenge” to the previously committed atrocities by the Turkish army, between the 20 and 23rd of July 1974; instead of being the other way around as you make it sound?

I hear that the Trkish army were allowed to land in Girne whilst flowers were spread on the ground before them.....The GCs did not fire a shot....Am I right Kifeas...

[T_C]

So no serious comments about this article? Just a couple of sarcastic musings from a pair of morons who don't have the cojones to provide a logical counter-argument backed up by credible evidence?

How about some sort of denial from our resident extremists? Or maybe a bit of false symapthy from the 'non-aligned'? Better yet, why doesn't one of our lovely GC 'moderates' tell me that it's things like those in the article that mean we should sign over half the island to the Turks and rewrite the history books so we can be 'brothers' with them?

Maybe you're all busy flirting with bored housewives and thinking up words for those 'Game' threads.

We KNOW the anger you feel when you read stuff like that and most TCs will totally relate to your comment about being ''brothers'', the false sympathy and what have you...

You also put us through the same things Magnus, and Ive posted many articles like the one below only to get the same ''I dont give a shit'' response from most GCs (which usually comes in form of ''what good will come out of this post'' ).

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.p ... resistance

You show no sympathy to us so I dont even know why youd even expect false sympathy in return.

[zan]

So no serious comments about this article? Just a couple of sarcastic musings from a pair of morons who don't have the cojones to provide a logical counter-argument backed up by credible evidence?

How about some sort of denial from our resident extremists? Or maybe a bit of false symapthy from the 'non-aligned'? Better yet, why doesn't one of our lovely GC 'moderates' tell me that it's things like those in the article that mean we should sign over half the island to the Turks and rewrite the history books so we can be 'brothers' with them?

Maybe you're all busy flirting with bored housewives and thinking up words for those 'Game' threads.

We KNOW the anger you feel when you read stuff like that and most TCs will totally relate to your comment about being ''brothers'', the false sympathy and what have you...

You also put us through the same things Magnus, and Ive posted many articles like the one below only to get the same ''I dont give a shit'' response from most GCs (which usually comes in form of ''what good will come out of this post'' ).

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.p ... resistance

You show no sympathy to us so I dont even know why youd even expect false sympathy in return.

I am afraid it is true T_C I ould like to hear what Magnus thinks now that he has heard from at least two honorable men here, Deniz and Bananiot. How do you feel now Magnus????

[Kifeas]

So no serious comments about this article? Just a couple of sarcastic musings from a pair of morons who don't have the cojones to provide a logical counter-argument backed up by credible evidence?

How about some sort of denial from our resident extremists? Or maybe a bit of false symapthy from the 'non-aligned'? Better yet, why doesn't one of our lovely GC 'moderates' tell me that it's things like those in the article that mean we should sign over half the island to the Turks and rewrite the history books so we can be 'brothers' with them?

Maybe you're all busy flirting with bored housewives and thinking up words for those 'Game' threads.

Magnus, what is it that you are after, by posting the initial article in this thread? What was your intention or objective?

[Medman]

Oh no, how can 'The Sun' be deemed a worthwhile newspaper source? The paper is the most read and over rated tabloid in the UK and not newsworthy. Excellent for its xenophobia and promoting all things David Beckham. Atrocities were committed on both sides in Cyprus. Were they that informed and concise when the Americans were gang banging their way around Vietnam. Course not! C'mon people you have your own opinions on Cyprus and you're relying on this worthless rag to push through your point of view. Get the front page of 'The Sun' today. Look whats on the front. Jade Goody a minor 'C' list celebrity of Big Brother fame (TV reality show) has taken crack! Great! Have you seen her, no one could want sex that much!

[zan]

Oh no, how can 'The Sun' be deemed a worthwhile newspaper source? The paper is the most read and over rated tabloid in the UK and not newsworthy. Excellent for its xenophobia and promoting all things David Beckham. Atrocities were committed on both sides in Cyprus. Were they that informed and concise when the Americans were gang banging their way around Vietnam. Course not! C'mon people you have your own opinions on Cyprus and you're relying on this worthless rag to push through your point of view. Get the front page of 'The Sun' today. Look whats on the front. Jade Goody a minor 'C' list celebrity of Big Brother fame (TV reality show) has taken crack! Great! Have you seen her, no one could want sex that much!

My GC friend said she was "Not that bad".......Burrrrrrrrah!!