Cyprus-Forum.com

[Get Real!]

How far back have you traced your family tree...

This is the bit where Zanny comes to the "rescue" of Kellogg's cornflakes with a classic derailment of the issue at hand!

What..By asking the right questions....

Right or relevant questions would be anything to do with the Abbey not a member's family tree!

He might be letting his Lusignanian ancestry down....If you see what I mean.....A remnant of the people that persecuted him

Sure I do...

[zan]

How far back have you traced your family tree...

This is the bit where Zanny comes to the "rescue" of Kellogg's cornflakes with a classic derailment of the issue at hand!

What..By asking the right questions....

Right or relevant questions would be anything to do with the Abbey not a member's family tree!

He might be letting his Lusignanian ancestry down....If you see what I mean.....A remnant of the people that persecuted him

Sure I do...

The first thing is that if he is pure Greek then he should not be on the island....If he is not then he is part of the evolution of the people of Cyprus....Just like the churches and the land.....He would not be there if it were not for ALL the people of Cyprus history.....He puts himself as the pure blood Greek Cypriot which is not the case......

[samarkeolog]

Regarding the Greek Cypriots taking over places abandoned by the Venetians: Firstly it was the Turks who killed the Venetians, not us. Secondly we just took back what was ours to begin with.

Well, the Lusignan Abbey of Bellapais was originally... Lusignan. So it wasn't yours to begin with. And as Greek Cypriots obsess over the conversion of Latin churches into Ottoman mosques, they should object to the conversion of Latin churches into Orthodox churches, too.

When someone quickly takes something we've left, we ask, "would you jump in my grave so fast?" The Orthodox did jump in the Catholics' churches quite fast, didn't they?

I’m afraid this whole Abbey debacle has backfired on you because as your link says it was “given” by the Ottomans… surely they didn’t offer it to the Orthodox Church with tenants included!

No, but I don't think the Orthodox wanted it with the hated Catholics inside. And they gladly took it and converted it. It wasn't an act of Christian charity. Or are you suggesting that they took it because they were scared what the Ottomans would do if they refused the gift?

Some of the monks might have stayed, some might even have converted! And the local worshippers probably continued to go to the local church. (I understand that it was relatively common for churches to house Catholic and Orthodox worshippers.)

[samarkeolog]

Regarding the Greek Cypriots taking over places abandoned by the Venetians: Firstly it was the Turks who killed the Venetians, not us. Secondly we just took back what was ours to begin with.

Well, the Lusignan Abbey of Bellapais was originally... Lusignan. So it wasn't yours to begin with. And as Greek Cypriots obsess over the conversion of Latin churches into Ottoman mosques, they should object to the conversion of Latin churches into Orthodox churches, too.

When someone quickly takes something we've left, we ask, "would you jump in my grave so fast?" The Orthodox did jump in the Catholics' churches quite fast, didn't they?

I’m afraid this whole Abbey debacle has backfired on you because as your link says it was “given” by the Ottomans… surely they didn’t offer it to the Orthodox Church with tenants included!

The point is, the abbey was a working Catholic abbey until it was given to the Orthodox Church. Not all of the Latins were killed or expelled. I don't know, but I haven't seen anything that says that Bellapais Abbey's monks were either killed or kicked off the island. All I've seen is stuff on their loss of control of the abbey.

[doesntmatter]

Regarding the Greek Cypriots taking over places abandoned by the Venetians: Firstly it was the Turks who killed the Venetians, not us. Secondly we just took back what was ours to begin with.

Well, the Lusignan Abbey of Bellapais was originally... Lusignan. So it wasn't yours to begin with. And as Greek Cypriots obsess over the conversion of Latin churches into Ottoman mosques, they should object to the conversion of Latin churches into Orthodox churches, too.

When someone quickly takes something we've left, we ask, "would you jump in my grave so fast?" The Orthodox did jump in the Catholics' churches quite fast, didn't they?

No mate. Nothing in Cyprus belongs to the Lusignan, who were nothing more than a foreign ruler dynasty. Cyprus belongs to the Cypriot people not to any foreign ruler.

Take today for example. Turkey occupies our lands, and builds in our properties. We never gave them any permission to build in our land, but they do it anyways. When we will take back our land we will take what it has inside as well. If the Turks didn't want this to happen, then they should be building their buildings in their own land, not in ours.

How far back have you traced your family tree...

What you talking about zan, Piratis is his family, the whole bloody tree, left over from 10,000 years ago, no one before him and no one after him.

[Oracle]

The Turks are unaware that the Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church had a common History.

The site of Bellapais used to be the residence of the Bishops of Kyrenia and where they hid from the Arab raids of the 7th and 8th centuries.

Later the Augustinian canons who had custody of the Church of the Holy Sepulchre (Orthodox) came to Cyprus. Bellapais Abbey was founded for them around 1200 by Aimery de Lusignan.

So its origins are intermingled with the history of the Greek Orthodox Church anyway.

[denizaksulu]

The Turks are unaware that the Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church had a common History.

The site of Bellapais used to be the residence of the Bishops of Kyrenia and where they hid from the Arab raids of the 7th and 8th centuries.

Later the Augustinian canons who had custody of the Church of the Holy Sepulchre (Orthodox) came to Cyprus. Bellapais Abbey was founded for them around 1200 by Aimery de Lusignan.

So its origins are intermingled with the history of the Greek Orthodox Church anyway.

....and your credible evidence..................


Poor Oracle clutching at strws now. Tut tut tut.


....a fighter till the end.

[Get Real!]

The point is, the abbey was a working Catholic abbey until it was given to the Orthodox Church. Not all of the Latins were killed or expelled. I don't know, but I haven't seen anything that says that Bellapais Abbey's monks were either killed or kicked off the island. All I've seen is stuff on their loss of control of the abbey.

UNFICYP’s “The Blue Beret” monthly magazine has an interesting article on the Abbey of Bellapais….

Page 5 of the PDF:

“With the decline of the Latin period in Cyprus, however, the
Catholic Church on the island also declined. The
Order of Premontre was no exception, particularly as
the morals of the monks had lapsed toward the end of
the Venetian occupation.

In 1570, during the Ottoman invasion of Cyprus, the
Abbey was largely destroyed. What was left was
handed over by the Ottomans to the Orthodox clergy.”

http://www.unficyp.org/media/Blue%20Ber ... 202004.pdf


Oh dear… the Ottomans have done it again by destroying the Abbey! Or could it be that the Abbey was destroyed but the monks miraculously survived due to surgical Ottoman bombing but were murdered by Makarios later on?

Samarkeolog insists that it was a "working abbey" and I'm starting to suspect that he was the real estate agent who brokered the transaction!

Bye-bye Samarkeolog!

[Oracle]

The Turks are unaware that the Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church had a common History.

The site of Bellapais used to be the residence of the Bishops of Kyrenia and where they hid from the Arab raids of the 7th and 8th centuries.

Later the Augustinian canons who had custody of the Church of the Holy Sepulchre (Orthodox) came to Cyprus. Bellapais Abbey was founded for them around 1200 by Aimery de Lusignan.

So its origins are intermingled with the history of the Greek Orthodox Church anyway.

....and your credible evidence..................


Poor Oracle clutching at strws now. Tut tut tut.


....a fighter till the end.

I have already recommended the book (Byzantium) to you, but you said you were too busy to read it .... but here is the closest thing, in a nutshell: http://www.sacred-destinations.com/cypr ... -abbey.htm

[denizaksulu]

The Turks are unaware that the Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church had a common History.

The site of Bellapais used to be the residence of the Bishops of Kyrenia and where they hid from the Arab raids of the 7th and 8th centuries.

Later the Augustinian canons who had custody of the Church of the Holy Sepulchre (Orthodox) came to Cyprus. Bellapais Abbey was founded for them around 1200 by Aimery de Lusignan.

So its origins are intermingled with the history of the Greek Orthodox Church anyway.

....and your credible evidence..................


Poor Oracle clutching at strws now. Tut tut tut.


....a fighter till the end.

I have already recommended the book (Byzantium) to you, but you said you were too busy to read it .... but here is the closest thing, in a nutshell: http://www.sacred-destinations.com/cypr ... -abbey.htm

Thank you, but I doubt if I ever said that I am too busy to read it. That would be rude of me. I always welcome suggestions. Perhaps you exagerate.

So far we have two versions of the fate of the Abbey. I wonder which one will be the 'credible' one. No doubt , the one that GR has just posted as it suits your argument most.