Cyprus-Forum.com

[Paphitis]

Dear Mr Paphiti

When we exchanged a few private lines, I said we'd disagree about some aspects of the Cyprus conundrum and agree about others. You've raised one of those where we disagree.

However, if there are certain words - the ones you quote - in the BSW site that offend you, please suggest appropriate alternatives which would satisfy us both.

Meanwhile, all the best to you and yours.

David

PS: To other contributors, who believe I am in thrall of the Turkish Cypriot side, I am not anymore than the Greek Cypriot side. But, yes, I knew Mr. Rauf Denktas quite well and I can say the same for Mr. Glafcos Clerides, both exceptional leaders of their people. I feel honored to have spent time with both men.

Then we have nothing further to discuss.

My posts were designed to make my Cypriot compatriots see some reason and engage in some PR with Britain by allowing you a place of remembrance in the recognised RoC and for you and those behind the British War memorial in Kyrenia to respect the long suffering Cypriot people whose island is partitioned at least partly due to Britain's campaign of Divide and Rule in the 50s.

I believe my stance was totally reasonable and stick by it despite constant condemnation from my compatriots, but you are not prepared to meet me and the Cypriot people half way. Cypriots have every right to resent Britain for the calamity she has caused on this tiny island. Britain also has unfulfilled moral and legal responsibilities to the RoC.

In an email I received from your friends it stated the following:

It has always been a matter of regret that the Greek Cypriot government took such a stance, and that if politics had any part that the goodwill which would have been evidenced by their support for the memorial at such an anniversary would have earned plaudits in the United Kingdom. We said so at
the time. We also said that EOKA would also earn respect if they had said,
"in accordance with military tradition, that they would wish to lay a wreath at the memorial".

Then your friends would also agree that the reverse would hold true. If in accordance with military tradition either you, a senior officer of the British Armed Forces or the British High Commissioner chose to lay a wreath at an EOKA memorial within the RoC, then this would also earn plaudits from the RoC and the Cypriot people.

Why have you not done so?

If you really want Thassos Sophocleos to eat his words then an officer of the British Armed forces would request to lay a wreath at an EOKA memorial on 01 Apr 10. The British Ministry of Defence could also request that Queen Elizabeth grant a Royal Pardon to all 17 EOKA fighters who were executed by the Colonial Regime.

If you want sympathy and respect for your war dead then you and your country must also respect our dead. By using certain terminology such as "terrorist", and "murderers" you are disrespecting the RoC and the Cypriot people at large. By using such terminology you also disrespect my family.

Nevertheless, I still choose to not disrespect your war dead but you choose to disrespect ours.

Why do you find it necessary to use this terminology against those persons who did what they had to do in order to become free men and women? Why did your army burn Afxentiou in his cave?

Furthermore, your friends have chosen to disrespect the RoC by building a War Memorial on land you legitimately own as per your 1973 RoC title deeds but is located in an area that is under occupation. If those responsible for the War Memorial are sincere, then they would perhaps practice what they preach and lay a wreath to our fallen. You should then ask the RoC for assistance in providing a suitable site in the unoccupied areas until a solution is reached and the memorial is relocated to its rightful place at Wayne's Keep.

Only then would the adverse sentiments amongst the Cypriot people not be justified.

All the best to you and yours.

P

[miltiades]

Dear Mr Paphiti

When we exchanged a few private lines, I said we'd disagree about some aspects of the Cyprus conundrum and agree about others. You've raised one of those where we disagree.

However, if there are certain words - the ones you quote - in the BSW site that offend you, please suggest appropriate alternatives which would satisfy us both.

Meanwhile, all the best to you and yours.

David

PS: To other contributors, who believe I am in thrall of the Turkish Cypriot side, I am not anymore than the Greek Cypriot side. But, yes, I knew Mr. Rauf Denktas quite well and I can say the same for Mr. Glafcos Clerides, both exceptional leaders of their people. I feel honored to have spent time with both men.

Then we have nothing further to discuss.

My posts were designed to make my Cypriot compatriots see some reason and engage in some PR with Britain by allowing you a place of remembrance in the recognised RoC and for you and those behind the British War memorial in Kyrenia to respect the long suffering Cypriot people whose island is partitioned at least partly due to Britain's campaign of Divide and Rule in the 50s.

I believe my stance was totally reasonable and stick by it despite constant condemnation from my compatriots, but you are not prepared to meet me and the Cypriot people half way. Cypriots have every right to resent Britain for the calamity she has caused on this tiny island. Britain also has unfulfilled moral and legal responsibilities to the RoC.

In an email I received from your friends it stated the following:

It has always been a matter of regret that the Greek Cypriot government took such a stance, and that if politics had any part that the goodwill which would have been evidenced by their support for the memorial at such an anniversary would have earned plaudits in the United Kingdom. We said so at
the time. We also said that EOKA would also earn respect if they had said,
"in accordance with military tradition, that they would wish to lay a wreath at the memorial".

Then your friends would also agree that the reverse would hold true. If in accordance with military tradition either you, a senior officer of the British Armed Forces or the British High Commissioner chose to lay a wreath at an EOKA memorial within the RoC, then this would also earn plaudits from the RoC and the Cypriot people.

Why have you not done so?

If you really want Thassos Sophocleos to eat his words then an officer of the British Armed forces would request to lay a wreath at an EOKA memorial on 01 Apr 10. The British Ministry of Defence could also request that Queen Elizabeth grant a Royal Pardon to all 17 EOKA fighters who were executed by the Colonial Regime.

If you want sympathy and respect for your war dead then you and your country must also respect our dead. By using certain terminology such as "terrorist", and "murderers" you are disrespecting the RoC and the Cypriot people at large. By using such terminology you also disrespect my family.

Nevertheless, I still choose to not disrespect your war dead but you choose to disrespect ours.

Why do you find it necessary to use this terminology against those persons who did what they had to do in order to become free men and women? Why did your army burn Afxentiou in his cave?

Furthermore, your friends have chosen to disrespect the RoC by building a War Memorial on land you legitimately own as per your 1973 RoC title deeds but is located in an area that is under occupation. If those responsible for the War Memorial are sincere, then they would perhaps practice what they preach and lay a wreath to our fallen. You should then ask the RoC for assistance in providing a suitable site in the unoccupied areas until a solution is reached and the memorial is relocated to its rightful place at Wayne's Keep.

Only then would the adverse sentiments amongst the Cypriot people not be justified.

All the best to you and yours.

P

Excellent post Paphitis .

[David Carter]

ATTENTION MR. MILTIADES

Re: your imaginings about who I am.

Rather than others - Mr Paphitis, included - checking their facts, I suggest you starting checking yours instead of quoting part of an article that appeared in a Greek Cypriot newspaper some years ago. It was written by a journalist - whose name escapes me - who could have spoken to me direct to get the facts, but broke a cardinal rule of quality reporting by typing fiction. Furthermore, when I asked him to run a correction, he did not, as that would not have suited his agenda.

For the record:

FACT: I do not live in north Cyprus and never have.

FACT: I do not own any property outside the United Kingdom and never have.

FACT: I am not involved in any business venture in any part of Cyprus and never have been.

FACT: I have never met Mr. Asil Nadir and have never been his guest in Cyprus or elsewhere.

FACT: I have never been involved with 'the Denktas regime' or any other administration in Cyprus, north or south. Nor would I wish to be.

FACT: I do not write for Cyprus Today. I did produce a weekly column for this English language newspaper between 1998 and 2002. My copy was usually filed from London and expressed my personal views without fear or favor. Not once was my material altered, censored or otherwise influenced. I refused payment for the column to preserve my independence.

FACT: Yes, I am the author of The Cyprus Tapes.

FACT: Yes, I am writing another book with the working title of Aphrodite's Killers. It should be on sale in November this year.

FACT: The author's royalties from both books have/will be donated to various charities - all 100 per cent.

FACT: Yes, I did lobby for a memorial for the British service personnel who lost their lives in Cyprus between 1955-59.

FACT: I am not involved in the current project, although I have helped provide the organizers with names of some of those who died, drawing on my personal archives.

While I firmly believe in every person's right to express their opinions, I equally believe these opinions should be based on facts, not falsehoods that suit their views.

You may not agree with my opinions, but I challenge you to refute my facts, when I quote them here or elsewhere.

Fortunately there are leading university academics in Athens, Nicosia, Edinburgh and London who draw on my knowledge and trust my judgment when they prepare their works.

If ever you want to find out anything about me, just ask. I'll do my best to answer your questions, factually. I don't hide my identity or my e-mail address.

ATTENTION 'ORACLE'

As I am not involved with the memorial project, you will need to pose your question to the organizers. However, as I understand the situation, the UK Government is neither for or against it, because it is a private endeavor, although actively supported by many individuals who are part of the establishment. Also, it is not being built on any disputed land. Its location is the old British Cemetery in Kyrenia, which remains British. As and when there is a Cyprus settlement, I think the organizers would move out it to the British Wayne's Keep Military Cemetery, near Nicosia, in the UN Buffer Zone.


Regards
David, relaxed and long retired.[/u]

[polis]

Under the circumstances of 50s where neo-fascist movemnt in Greece was on the rise ...

Do you have the slightest clue what you are talking about?

Only that I have a hard enough time with the jokers on the other side without coming here and getting blamed for someone else's quote. :roll:

Apologies Eric. I can't even locate the original post to see who was the real author of the excerpt. The search engine on this site is attrocious, isn't it?

[The Cypriot]

Eleftheria i Thanados!

That's my boy ...

Woman, my gun needs a clean!

I hope its a shotgun!!!.whats your prey? Partridges or rabbits?

traitors.

When you first surfaced, I wrongly took you as a 'Moderate'.

I'm a Cypriot freedom fighter.

And thank goodness for collaborators that the pen is mightier than the sword these days.

[YFred]

ATTENTION MR. MILTIADES

Re: your imaginings about who I am.

Rather than others - Mr Paphitis, included - checking their facts, I suggest you starting checking yours instead of quoting part of an article that appeared in a Greek Cypriot newspaper some years ago. It was written by a journalist - whose name escapes me - who could have spoken to me direct to get the facts, but broke a cardinal rule of quality reporting by typing fiction. Furthermore, when I asked him to run a correction, he did not, as that would not have suited his agenda.

For the record:

FACT: I do not live in north Cyprus and never have.

FACT: I do not own any property outside the United Kingdom and never have.

FACT: I am not involved in any business venture in any part of Cyprus and never have been.

FACT: I have never met Mr. Asil Nadir and have never been his guest in Cyprus or elsewhere.

FACT: I have never been involved with 'the Denktas regime' or any other administration in Cyprus, north or south. Nor would I wish to be.

FACT: I do not write for Cyprus Today. I did produce a weekly column for this English language newspaper between 1998 and 2002. My copy was usually filed from London and expressed my personal views without fear or favor. Not once was my material altered, censored or otherwise influenced. I refused payment for the column to preserve my independence.

FACT: Yes, I am the author of The Cyprus Tapes.

FACT: Yes, I am writing another book with the working title of Aphrodite's Killers. It should be on sale in November this year.

FACT: The author's royalties from both books have/will be donated to various charities - all 100 per cent.

FACT: Yes, I did lobby for a memorial for the British service personnel who lost their lives in Cyprus between 1955-59.

FACT: I am not involved in the current project, although I have helped provide the organizers with names of some of those who died, drawing on my personal archives.

While I firmly believe in every person's right to express their opinions, I equally believe these opinions should be based on facts, not falsehoods that suit their views.

You may not agree with my opinions, but I challenge you to refute my facts, when I quote them here or elsewhere.

Fortunately there are leading university academics in Athens, Nicosia, Edinburgh and London who draw on my knowledge and trust my judgment when they prepare their works.

If ever you want to find out anything about me, just ask. I'll do my best to answer your questions, factually. I don't hide my identity or my e-mail address.

ATTENTION 'ORACLE'

As I am not involved with the memorial project, you will need to pose your question to the organizers. However, as I understand the situation, the UK Government is neither for or against it, because it is a private endeavor, although actively supported by many individuals who are part of the establishment. Also, it is not being built on any disputed land. Its location is the old British Cemetery in Kyrenia, which remains British. As and when there is a Cyprus settlement, I think the organizers would move out it to the British Wayne's Keep Military Cemetery, near Nicosia, in the UN Buffer Zone.


Regards
David, relaxed and long retired.[/u]

David, You have just come across mostly new breed of Eoka members known to this forum as Eoka-Crap as well as the odd old one thrown in between.
I wouldn’t take them too seriously if I was you. However we are interested in the truth regarding the past particularly the activities of Eoka and Eoka-B as well as TMT, any contributions on that score would be much appreciated.

[The Cypriot]

I can never condemn the ADF or what it does. I don't seek popularism like you do.

Popularism? Like I do? Who do you think you're talking to?

Dear Mr Paphitis

I'm not the one seeking to ingratiate myself with those that left Cyprus to the wolves and who've done nowhere near enough to redeem themselves.

Freedom is what I'm after.

Best wishes to you and yours

The Cypriot

[Oracle]

FACT: Yes, I am the author of The Cyprus Tapes.
[/u]

Aaahh ... now I remember you

Wasn't that financed by the Turkish Foreign Ministry, or some such sponsor?

[Oracle]

As I am not involved with the memorial project, you will need to pose your question to the organizers.

But you said:

FACT: Yes, I did lobby for a memorial for the British service personnel who lost their lives in Cyprus between 1955-59.

the UK Government is neither for or against it, because it is a private endeavor, although actively supported by many individuals who are part of the establishment.

Rather strange, don't you think?

Also, it is not being built on any disputed land.

Yes it is!

As and when there is a Cyprus settlement, I think the organizers would move out it to the British Wayne's Keep Military Cemetery, near Nicosia, in the UN Buffer Zone.

Why not site it in the UK .... until there is a settlement, and then you can move it, as you say!

[David Carter]

Dear Oracle

Let's take your points one at a time.

(1) To the best of my knowledge, my book, The Cyprus Tapes, was not sponsored by any one. If it was, then I did not know about it. The book itself explains why it came to be written and who suggested the idea in the first place. That person was the late Nancy Crawshaw, the author of The Cyprus Revolt, a book, I'm told has the respect of Greek and Turkish Cypriots alike.

(2) I repeat I am not involved with the current memorial project. I lobbied for 'a memorial' back in 2000 or thereabouts. I will not apologize or take responsibility for the actions of others.

(3) The choice of location is because those to be named on the memorial died in Cyprus. It is a tradition of the British Army - note there are British military cemeteries in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, India, Gallipoli, Germany, France, Holland, Belgium et al. Some of these date back to the 19th century.

(4) Since when is land owned by the British in the North going back before the creation of the Republic of Cyprus and the events of 1974 become 'disputed'? If you are suggesting that British property can suddenly be taken over at whim of a Greek Cypriot like yourself, I suggest you are marching to a different tune to most of your countrymen. By the way, where do you live today?

(5) If the UK Government is not involved with the project, what's your beef about individual Members of Parliament and retired senior military officers from giving their private support? Just as I hope you are citizen with freedom to act as you see fit, within the law, why can't they? Just because you disagree with them, it's a tad arrogant to question their rights to act according to their conscience.

I know I may be causing you and others offense, but I must ask how you define 'terrorist' and 'terrorism'?

I choose my words carefully and hope the reader will read them carefully, too, understanding I speak only for myself and nobody else.

All the best
David - still retired, still relaxed.