Cyprus-Forum.com

[The Cypriot]

Why won't you condemn the systematic desecration of a whole graveyard, halil? Do they have a gun to your head?

I always condemn such acts CYPRIOT-ISM .........

Thank you, halil. I am very pleased to hear that.

Hear that Oracle? Halil condemns the destruction of Cypriot heritage. He always does! So what's your problem?

Any others, like Halil, willing to do the same? How about you YFred? Or you runaway? Will you stand together with Halil and condemn what happened to that graveyard?

Not only condemn that graveyard desecration T C but all desecration on both sides.

Thanks.... Freddie.

[iceman]

Not being Cypriot and having no axe to grind against either side of the green line i have visited areas of the occupied north to look for myself at the countryside and villages that were once mixed communities.
I want to know why such disgraceful behaviour on the part of the occupiers took place??
I refer to the destruction and desecration of Christian churches and even worse in my mind, the destruction and vandalism of Christian Graveyards.
What were you afraid of? the dead can harm no one. They represent no threat yet you have destroyed graves and vandalised them - for what?
Used them as goat pens....these are the actions of Barbarians.
You want tourism, but mainly from christian countries i suspect, and this is how you treat the dead?

I also note that in the South the Mosques there i have visited are in good order and some have even been renovated.
Is this the way your God tells you to respect others? Eternal Shame on you.

I think that Turkey wishes to perpetuate the myth that Cyprus has always been divided into a Turkish north and a Greek south, and in order to perpetuate this myth requires to remove all evidence that contradicts this. I think Turkey is succeeding in creating this impression. Speak to many foreigners who have a casual acquaintance with Cyprus and you will find that they believe that the island has always been divided along ethnic lines as it is now, and that the north has always been populated by Turks.

Tim
You are fairly new to Cyprus so naturally you wouldn't know..This "removing the evidence of other communities past" has been practiced by GC's long time ago..
Up until the end of 19th century there used to be only muslim villages occupied by ancestors of TC's in Cyprus.Each and every one of these villages had a small or a large mosque and a cemetery...Where are they now?
Captain H.H Kitchener's Trigonometric map of Cyprus dated 1882 is an excellent evidence for the above claim.

Iceman, I am not quite sure I understand what exactly you are talking about. Can you be more specific and give us some examples of such villages, and also a link to the said map? So far I knew that a good number of mosques in Cyprus were previously Christian churches, and this is also evident by their architectural style, beside other historical accounts, but it’s the first time I hear that exclusively Muslim villages were overtaken by Greek Cypriots and their mosques destroyed.

Kifeas
During Ottoman occupation in Cyprus,there used to be villages with mix population there were also villages occupied by either only Christian population or only Muslim population..
H.H.Kitcheners map published in 1882 clearly states these villages and their population status by religion..(as well as their names use by each population)
Some of the place names Turkish administration started using after 1974 are the names which had been used for centuries..some examples are Chatal Keuy (Ayios Epiktitos) or Arap Keuy (Klepini) Ay Ghroush (Ayios Amvrosios) these villages in Kyrenia region used to have mixed population at the time the map was made but later on Turkish population and their remains vanished from these villages.
Plenty of examples i cannot remember individually now..examples of only TC villages which in time the TC population vanished and they became only GC villages with no sign of the TC's ever existing there..Like Akathu...Not many people know Akathu was a TC village..
Anyway...the H.H.Kitcheners map is not online but i have a detailed copy of it on a CD..
If interested in a copy send me a PM..
I cannot upload all of the map because its made up of loads of files (146 to be more precise) but i am uploading the index to give you an idea of what i mentioned about displaying population info as well as names used by both communities..

[Oracle]

From above writing i understood that Turkish Cypriots are left the village at 1963 . May be Mosque and cemetery was detroyed between 1963-........
period .[/quote]

Halil .... you have posted this before and we querid for a source showing what this "mosque" may have looked like before you say it became a car park ... you failed to respond then!

If it was still around in 1963, as you suggest now, then there should be some photographic evidence to give us an idea of what sort of state it was in before it was abandoned.

[halil]

Just condemn does not help Cypriot ......

It's a good start.

U are the ones always opening those propaganda topics in here while we are talking for a peace in this island than i respond .

But we need to condemn these outrages, learn from them so that they never happen again, to ensure peace on this island.

by trying to divert the world public only for one sided ideas always gets my reactiones and it will get in future as well .

Fine. The destruction in the north has been systematic, coordinated and continuing. How can we have peace unless it stops?

At the end if we wanna live together in this island we will decide Cypriot how we can live in Cyprus not the third countries .... like EU ,USA ,Russia ,Greece or Turkey or others ..... the way u are trying to show all the time nothing happened to Turkish Cypriots in this island suddenly bloody jerkish arm came to Cyprus and fucked on everything .(thats what i get all from your writings)

That's a little unfair in my view but I'll bear it in mind...

I really hope Cypriots can decide how to live together without third countries. But how can Cypriots in the north do so without Turkey? Isn't that the problem?

Again u are one sided Cypriot ...... with your below comment .
The destruction in the north has been systematic, coordinated and continuing. How can we have peace unless it stops?

It goes on at both side . we are getting new evidences everyday from both side . We all can witness now because it can be freely go every where in Cyprus now.

good news is our leaders are now agreed on protecting both side heritages and all necessary protections are taken now and also at both side reconstructiones works are started .

at both side people are learned good lessons from each other . when they see people are visiting their places they feels guilty from both sides Cypriots . I know peoples feelings very well because i met them everyday . Both sides complaines are same .

[The Cypriot]

Again u are one sided Cypriot ...... with your below comment .
The destruction in the north has been systematic, coordinated and continuing. How can we have peace unless it stops?

But, it's not my comment but the independent Helsinki Commission. But fair enough, point taken.

It goes on at both side . we are getting new evidences everyday from both side . We all can witness now because it can be freely go every where in Cyprus now.

good news is our leaders are now agreed on protecting both side heritages and all necessary protections are taken now and also at both side reconstructiones works are started .

at both side people are learned good lessons from each other . when they see people are visiting their places they feels guilty from both sides Cypriots . I know peoples feelings very well because i met them everyday . Both sides complaines are same .

That's good. I really hope you're right.

[Oracle]

Not being Cypriot and having no axe to grind against either side of the green line i have visited areas of the occupied north to look for myself at the countryside and villages that were once mixed communities.
I want to know why such disgraceful behaviour on the part of the occupiers took place??
I refer to the destruction and desecration of Christian churches and even worse in my mind, the destruction and vandalism of Christian Graveyards.
What were you afraid of? the dead can harm no one. They represent no threat yet you have destroyed graves and vandalised them - for what?
Used them as goat pens....these are the actions of Barbarians.
You want tourism, but mainly from christian countries i suspect, and this is how you treat the dead?

I also note that in the South the Mosques there i have visited are in good order and some have even been renovated.
Is this the way your God tells you to respect others? Eternal Shame on you.

I think that Turkey wishes to perpetuate the myth that Cyprus has always been divided into a Turkish north and a Greek south, and in order to perpetuate this myth requires to remove all evidence that contradicts this. I think Turkey is succeeding in creating this impression. Speak to many foreigners who have a casual acquaintance with Cyprus and you will find that they believe that the island has always been divided along ethnic lines as it is now, and that the north has always been populated by Turks.

Tim
You are fairly new to Cyprus so naturally you wouldn't know..This "removing the evidence of other communities past" has been practiced by GC's long time ago..
Up until the end of 19th century there used to be only muslim villages occupied by ancestors of TC's in Cyprus.Each and every one of these villages had a small or a large mosque and a cemetery...Where are they now?
Captain H.H Kitchener's Trigonometric map of Cyprus dated 1882 is an excellent evidence for the above claim.

Iceman, I am not quite sure I understand what exactly you are talking about. Can you be more specific and give us some examples of such villages, and also a link to the said map? So far I knew that a good number of mosques in Cyprus were previously Christian churches, and this is also evident by their architectural style, beside other historical accounts, but it’s the first time I hear that exclusively Muslim villages were overtaken by Greek Cypriots and their mosques destroyed.

Kifeas
During Ottoman occupation in Cyprus,there used to be villages with mix population there were also villages occupied by either only Christian population or only Muslim population..
H.H.Kitcheners map published in 1882 clearly states these villages and their population status by religion..(as well as their names use by each population)
Some of the place names Turkish administration started using after 1974 are the names which had been used for centuries..some examples are Chatal Keuy (Ayios Epiktitos) or Arap Keuy (Klepini) Ay Ghroush (Ayios Amvrosios) these villages in Kyrenia region used to have mixed population at the time the map was made but later on Turkish population and their remains vanished from these villages.
Plenty of examples i cannot remember individually now..examples of only TC villages which in time the TC population vanished and they became only GC villages with no sign of the TC's ever existing there..Like Akathu...Not many people know Akathu was a TC village..
Anyway...the H.H.Kitcheners map is not online but i have a detailed copy of it on a CD..
If interested in a copy send me a PM..
I cannot upload all of the map because its made up of loads of files (146 to be more precise) but i am uploading the index to give you an idea of what i mentioned about displaying population info as well as names used by both communities..

Iceman ... his maps were produced in haste and deemed unreliable by historians, when compared to other sources from that time.

[Kikapu]

From above writing i understood that Turkish Cypriots are left the village at 1963 . May be Mosque and cemetery was detroyed between 1963-........
period .

Halil .... you have posted this before and we querid for a source showing what this "mosque" may have looked like before you say it became a car park ... you failed to respond then!

If it was still around in 1963, as you suggest now, then there should be some photographic evidence to give us an idea of what sort of state it was in before it was abandoned.[/quote]

[iceman]

Not being Cypriot and having no axe to grind against either side of the green line i have visited areas of the occupied north to look for myself at the countryside and villages that were once mixed communities.
I want to know why such disgraceful behaviour on the part of the occupiers took place??
I refer to the destruction and desecration of Christian churches and even worse in my mind, the destruction and vandalism of Christian Graveyards.
What were you afraid of? the dead can harm no one. They represent no threat yet you have destroyed graves and vandalised them - for what?
Used them as goat pens....these are the actions of Barbarians.
You want tourism, but mainly from christian countries i suspect, and this is how you treat the dead?

I also note that in the South the Mosques there i have visited are in good order and some have even been renovated.
Is this the way your God tells you to respect others? Eternal Shame on you.

I think that Turkey wishes to perpetuate the myth that Cyprus has always been divided into a Turkish north and a Greek south, and in order to perpetuate this myth requires to remove all evidence that contradicts this. I think Turkey is succeeding in creating this impression. Speak to many foreigners who have a casual acquaintance with Cyprus and you will find that they believe that the island has always been divided along ethnic lines as it is now, and that the north has always been populated by Turks.

Tim
You are fairly new to Cyprus so naturally you wouldn't know..This "removing the evidence of other communities past" has been practiced by GC's long time ago..
Up until the end of 19th century there used to be only muslim villages occupied by ancestors of TC's in Cyprus.Each and every one of these villages had a small or a large mosque and a cemetery...Where are they now?
Captain H.H Kitchener's Trigonometric map of Cyprus dated 1882 is an excellent evidence for the above claim.

Iceman, I am not quite sure I understand what exactly you are talking about. Can you be more specific and give us some examples of such villages, and also a link to the said map? So far I knew that a good number of mosques in Cyprus were previously Christian churches, and this is also evident by their architectural style, beside other historical accounts, but it’s the first time I hear that exclusively Muslim villages were overtaken by Greek Cypriots and their mosques destroyed.

Kifeas
During Ottoman occupation in Cyprus,there used to be villages with mix population there were also villages occupied by either only Christian population or only Muslim population..
H.H.Kitcheners map published in 1882 clearly states these villages and their population status by religion..(as well as their names use by each population)
Some of the place names Turkish administration started using after 1974 are the names which had been used for centuries..some examples are Chatal Keuy (Ayios Epiktitos) or Arap Keuy (Klepini) Ay Ghroush (Ayios Amvrosios) these villages in Kyrenia region used to have mixed population at the time the map was made but later on Turkish population and their remains vanished from these villages.
Plenty of examples i cannot remember individually now..examples of only TC villages which in time the TC population vanished and they became only GC villages with no sign of the TC's ever existing there..Like Akathu...Not many people know Akathu was a TC village..
Anyway...the H.H.Kitcheners map is not online but i have a detailed copy of it on a CD..
If interested in a copy send me a PM..
I cannot upload all of the map because its made up of loads of files (146 to be more precise) but i am uploading the index to give you an idea of what i mentioned about displaying population info as well as names used by both communities..

Iceman ... his maps were produced in haste and deemed unreliable by historians, when compared to other sources from that time.

Sure...if you say so...you would know better wouldn't you?

[Oracle]

Not being Cypriot and having no axe to grind against either side of the green line i have visited areas of the occupied north to look for myself at the countryside and villages that were once mixed communities.
I want to know why such disgraceful behaviour on the part of the occupiers took place??
I refer to the destruction and desecration of Christian churches and even worse in my mind, the destruction and vandalism of Christian Graveyards.
What were you afraid of? the dead can harm no one. They represent no threat yet you have destroyed graves and vandalised them - for what?
Used them as goat pens....these are the actions of Barbarians.
You want tourism, but mainly from christian countries i suspect, and this is how you treat the dead?

I also note that in the South the Mosques there i have visited are in good order and some have even been renovated.
Is this the way your God tells you to respect others? Eternal Shame on you.

I think that Turkey wishes to perpetuate the myth that Cyprus has always been divided into a Turkish north and a Greek south, and in order to perpetuate this myth requires to remove all evidence that contradicts this. I think Turkey is succeeding in creating this impression. Speak to many foreigners who have a casual acquaintance with Cyprus and you will find that they believe that the island has always been divided along ethnic lines as it is now, and that the north has always been populated by Turks.

Tim
You are fairly new to Cyprus so naturally you wouldn't know..This "removing the evidence of other communities past" has been practiced by GC's long time ago..
Up until the end of 19th century there used to be only muslim villages occupied by ancestors of TC's in Cyprus.Each and every one of these villages had a small or a large mosque and a cemetery...Where are they now?
Captain H.H Kitchener's Trigonometric map of Cyprus dated 1882 is an excellent evidence for the above claim.

Iceman, I am not quite sure I understand what exactly you are talking about. Can you be more specific and give us some examples of such villages, and also a link to the said map? So far I knew that a good number of mosques in Cyprus were previously Christian churches, and this is also evident by their architectural style, beside other historical accounts, but it’s the first time I hear that exclusively Muslim villages were overtaken by Greek Cypriots and their mosques destroyed.

Kifeas
During Ottoman occupation in Cyprus,there used to be villages with mix population there were also villages occupied by either only Christian population or only Muslim population..
H.H.Kitcheners map published in 1882 clearly states these villages and their population status by religion..(as well as their names use by each population)
Some of the place names Turkish administration started using after 1974 are the names which had been used for centuries..some examples are Chatal Keuy (Ayios Epiktitos) or Arap Keuy (Klepini) Ay Ghroush (Ayios Amvrosios) these villages in Kyrenia region used to have mixed population at the time the map was made but later on Turkish population and their remains vanished from these villages.
Plenty of examples i cannot remember individually now..examples of only TC villages which in time the TC population vanished and they became only GC villages with no sign of the TC's ever existing there..Like Akathu...Not many people know Akathu was a TC village..
Anyway...the H.H.Kitcheners map is not online but i have a detailed copy of it on a CD..
If interested in a copy send me a PM..
I cannot upload all of the map because its made up of loads of files (146 to be more precise) but i am uploading the index to give you an idea of what i mentioned about displaying population info as well as names used by both communities..

Iceman ... his maps were produced in haste and deemed unreliable by historians, when compared to other sources from that time.

Sure...if you say so...you would know better wouldn't you?

Nope ... Bekker-Nielsen says so ...

"The roads of ancient Cyprus" By Tønnes Bekker-Nielsen

You can google it, keywords: kitchener + cyprus

(I can't cut and paste)

[Nikitas]

Iceman,

What would cause the TC population of Akanthou, which according to my info was a fairly wealthy place, to leave? Presumably if it was a TC village in 1878 the emigration of TC happened during British colonial times when there were no communal clashes. Same question arises with other places you mention as being TC inhabited.