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[Viewpoint]

Malapapa

Now that Cypriots are safely in the EU no way will they repeat the mistake of having foreign powers interfere in their domestic affairs and/or "guarantee" their island's territorial integrity.

Who will step in if things go wrong or there is a repeat of the past? WHy do you want them out of the way? to do as you wish to any part of your population? TCs wont buy this, there is no trust between the 2 communities therefore until this has been established encouraged and shown to work you cannot throw away security guarantees.

I am innocent until proven guilty. Innocent people cannot be punished for the crimes of others. No one will buy this in the civilised world.

You are talking about individuals when its your community that is guilty of messing things up in Cyprus and the price is the loss of 37% of this island. So to put things right its again your community that has to find a structure under BBF with political equality that we can all commit to, otherwise both sides continue to lose by not reaching their full potential.

If the TC judge was an EU citizen, qualified in accordance with EU norms, and operating in accordance with EU law, then on what basis could I object? If I wasn't happy with proceedings, then I would have the opportunity to appeal.

You do not appear 100% certain about placing your future in the hands of TC judge you need an opt out appeal clause. So you have no problem rotting in jail until your appeal is being heard in the ECHR, how long do those cases normally take 8 9 10 years.....this is something we will not accept because we are honest and knowledgable enough to say no we will not place our future in the hands of GC judges however well they are trainned because we do not trust they will be unbiased when dealing with TCs, nor do we want to rot in jail which trying to clear up their mess.

[Malapapa]

Who will step in if things go wrong or there is a repeat of the past? WHy do you want them out of the way? to do as you wish to any part of your population? TCs wont buy this, there is no trust between the 2 communities therefore until this has been established encouraged and shown to work you cannot throw away security guarantees.

Sorry. No guarantees. You won't convince me or any other free Cypriot of the need of guarantees from a known aggressor such as Turkey.

You are talking about individuals when its your community that is guilty of messing things up in Cyprus and the price is the loss of 37% of this island.

That was two generations ago. And that's your judgement not the international court. And the punishment was meted out by Turkey not the international court. I recognise neither the verdict, nor the penalty.

So to put things right its again your community that has to find a structure under BBF with political equality that we can all commit to, otherwise both sides continue to lose by not reaching their full potential.

Free Cypriots are doing OK in the EU thanks. They are under no obligation to find a structure, nor to commit to one that isn't better than the status quo.

You do not appear 100% certain about placing your future in the hands of TC judge you need an opt out appeal clause.

The appeal is my right. If I believe there has been a miscarriage of justice I would exercise it. Of course I would. As would anyone.

So you have no problem rotting in jail until your appeal is being heard in the ECHR, how long do those cases normally take 8 9 10 years.....

Why would a TC judge, an EU citizen, qualified in accordance with EU norms, and operating in accordance with EU law do that? What crime am I supposed to have committed?

this is something we will not accept because we are honest and knowledgable enough to say no we will not place our future in the hands of GC judges however well they are trainned because we do not trust they will be unbiased when dealing with TCs, nor do we want to rot in jail which trying to clear up their mess.

Not sure what I can do about this. That's how the law works in the civilised world. Sometimes people from a different background to the defendent tries the defendent. It's not ideal, trust can be an issue. But the alternative is apartheid.

[Viewpoint]

Malapapa

Sorry. No guarantees. You won't convince me or any other free Cypriot of the need of guarantees from a known aggressor such as Turkey.

Then what do we do? you cannot dismiss my concerns you have to address them.

That was two generations ago. And that's your judgement not the international court. And the punishment was meted out by Turkey not the international court. I recognise neither the verdict, nor the penalty.

Tell that to the policemen next time you try to cross the border into the TRNC. The results does not dissapear becuase you do not like it or recognize it, your naive approach is like burying your head in the sand its doesnt make things go away, reality will always stare you right in the face.

Free Cypriots are doing OK in the EU thanks. They are under no obligation to find a structure, nor to commit to one that isn't better than the status quo.

Have you informed your leaders, they do not appear to agree with you.

The appeal is my right. If I believe there has been a miscarriage of justice I would exercise it. Of course I would. As would anyone.

Of course it is your right...are you willing to knowingly be tried by a TC court that acts biased towards GCs knowing that you have the right to appeal?

Why would a TC judge, an EU citizen, qualified in accordance with EU norms, and operating in accordance with EU law do that? What crime am I supposed to have committed?

Its the principle and dangers involved with placing your fate in the hands of racist and biased judges that we are discussing. They can throw you in prision and let you rot while you try to overturn the verdict. How can you knowingly commit suicide by accepting such a deal.

Not sure what I can do about this. That's how the law works in the civilised world. Sometimes people from a different background to the defendent tries the defendent. It's not ideal, trust can be an issue. But the alternative is apartheid.

You have to think outside of the box why cant we have a more balanced set of judges both TCs and GCs that will work together and ensure no racist or biased verdicts are made?

[Malapapa]

Malapapa

Sorry. No guarantees. You won't convince me or any other free Cypriot of the need of guarantees from a known aggressor such as Turkey.

Then what do we do? you cannot dismiss my concerns you have to address them.

No I don't. Your demands for guarantees from Turkey are unacceptable. It ends there I'm afraid. The status quo is more preferable.

That was two generations ago. And that's your judgement not the international court. And the punishment was meted out by Turkey not the international court. I recognise neither the verdict, nor the penalty.

Tell that to the policemen next time you try to cross the border into the TRNC.

I would do my talking through lawyers in the courts.

The results does not dissapear becuase you do not like it or recognize it, your naive approach is like burying your head in the sand its doesnt make things go away, reality will always stare you right in the face.

What can I do other than pursue my individual rights in the relevant courts?

Free Cypriots are doing OK in the EU thanks. They are under no obligation to find a structure, nor to commit to one that isn't better than the status quo.

Have you informed your leaders, they do not appear to agree with you.

Viewpoint, let me repeat. Free Cypriots simply will not commit to anything worse than the status quo. OK?

The appeal is my right. If I believe there has been a miscarriage of justice I would exercise it. Of course I would. As would anyone.

Of course it is your right...are you willing to knowingly be tried by a TC court that acts biased towards GCs knowing that you have the right to appeal?

This is not a scenario that I recognise. It's like describing a court in the UK as a white court because the judge happens to be white.

Why would a TC judge, an EU citizen, qualified in accordance with EU norms, and operating in accordance with EU law do that? What crime am I supposed to have committed?

Its the principle and dangers involved with placing your fate in the hands of racist and biased judges that we are discussing.

I'm not discussing this you are. Racism and bias is a sad fact of life. In civilised societies there are checks and balances to mitigate this. These don't include enforced segregation and apartheid. Enough already.

They can throw you in prision and let you rot while you try to overturn the verdict. How can you knowingly commit suicide by accepting such a deal.

That's your choice. I can't force you to accept what you perceive to be such a deal just as you can't force me to accept the alternative; apartheid.

Not sure what I can do about this. That's how the law works in the civilised world. Sometimes people from a different background to the defendent tries the defendent. It's not ideal, trust can be an issue. But the alternative is apartheid.

You have to think outside of the box why cant we have a more balanced set of judges both TCs and GCs that will work together and ensure no racist or biased verdicts are made?

Cypriots, free from outside interference and control, working together in a way to ensure more balance and to ensure no racist or biased verdicts against any Cypriot citizen (including on the grounds of race, sexuality, religion, gender, age, socio-economic group, etc.) sounds very civilised to me. Why would I object to this?

[Viewpoint]

Malapapa

No I don't. Your demands for guarantees from Turkey are unacceptable. It ends there I'm afraid. The status quo is more preferable.

It does not end there, what alternative do you put forward to replace Turkey? and why do you want to get rid of Turkey? is it so you can have a free hand to act as you wish against TCs?

I would do my talking through lawyers in the courts.

Would that help you cross the border or get your rights in the north back?

What can I do other than pursue my individual rights in the relevant courts?

You can ask for a system where you will not have to go to other courts, where you know from theoutset that allowed to free reign they can discriminate and manipulate the situation to suit themsleves all under the disguise of "democracy".

Viewpoint, let me repeat. Free Cypriots simply will not commit to anything worse than the status quo. OK?

So all these "negotiations" are a farce, you are being insincere by paying lip service to finding a solution under a BBF with political equality structure? That would back up the claim being made by TRNC politicians that GCs do not want a solution.

This is not a scenario that I recognise. It's like describing a court in the UK as a white court because the judge happens to be white.

With our history and ethnic biased every TC or GC being tried is at risk if forced into a court where the judge is from the other community. You may be willing ot risk it but I am not unless there are regulations in place that I will be judged by TC judges in a language I understand.

I'm not discussing this you are. Racism and bias is a sad fact of life. In civilised societies there are checks and balances to mitigate this. These don't include enforced segregation and apartheid. Enough already.

Discussion is a 2 way street and reading your responses its obvious that we are discussing this subject. The fact that it exsists and we know about it means that we should put forward those checks and balances you talk about to ensure the fairest legal proceeding possible if that means ethnic unison then so be it, I do not want to be judged by a GC judge in a labguage I do not understand.

That's your choice. I can't force you to accept what you perceive to be such a deal just as you can't force me to accept the alternative; apartheid.

No trust means safeguards and guarantees, these you have to accept.

Cypriots, free from outside interference and control, working together in a way to ensure more balance and to ensure no racist or biased verdicts against any Cypriot citizen (including on the grounds of race, sexuality, religion, gender, age, socio-economic group, etc.) sounds very civilised to me. Why would I object to this?

Then why do you object to a mixed court or my objection to not being judged purely by a GC judge in a language I do not understand?