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Proving the Existence of God

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Postby intermoon » Sun May 09, 2010 8:47 pm

Paphitis wrote:
intermoon wrote:
Paphitis wrote:
intermoon wrote:
Paphitis wrote:
intermoon wrote:
CopperLine wrote:
I think that it is not mess but needs explanation.

When I said that God can cure the cancer if he wants means it is something he can do and we find many examples around us. Whenever there is calamity in this world, it can be either punishment or test for people, it can be Punishment for bad people and test for good people. Only God alone knows the truth and only he can be judge between good and bad.


Was that an explanation ? So only god knows,and human beings can't know. Therefore, logically, human beings cannot know whether their illness is a punishment or a test. Human beings can't know what is a good action or a bad action nor can they know which of their actions is to be punished or tested. The jealous arbitrary god that you've just presented here is therefore an irrational god. Well done intermoon. where


When I said that there are something even God Almighty cannot do, for Example he cannot create another God because by definition God is un created therefore how can he create an uncreated, another example is that he cannot kick you out of his kingdom because whole universe belongs to him. He may evaporates you but you will be still in his Kingdom.


This is nonsense on stilts.

Concept of God in Islam not like other religions and Islam is not like other religion just a set of beliefs but it is a complete way of life.


What is the concept of god in islam, given that it is derived from judaism and christiantity ? Like them there are different concepts of god in islam and different traditions in allthose religions would and do claim that religion is "a complete way of life." This is not peculiar to Islam.

All religions teach to do good things but unlike other religions, Islam also teaches how achieve that state of goodness. For example all religions teach not to rob but Islam beside teaches not to rob also guide us what laws should be implemented in the society to stop it.


This is also nonsense. Islam more than christianity and judaism teaches obedience, that is submission, to god. They do not teach to do 'good things',they teach to fulfil the word of god (whatever that is). Go back to your paragraph 1, intermoon, where you said "Only God alone knows the truth and only he can be judge between good and bad." If that is the case then human beings can't knowingly do good (or bad).


I said only God knows the truth what is in the hearts of people and he is the one who can judge. You and me can know the truth but we can also make mistakes but God almighty cannot make mistake that is why I said he is only one who knows the truth. Don’t take the meaning literally.

You may know how to play with words but I am here to expose the truth not to play with words. No one of you has answered a single sciencetific facts found in the Quran. It was impossible any human being had known those facts 1400 years ago.

It is a misconception that Islam is a new religion and Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him) was the founder of this religion, infact Islam is there since the time in memorial; Prophet Muhammad was not the founder but the last and final prophet of Islam. If you study Bible, you will not find any religion by the name of Christianity or Judaism but it was the names given by people to followers of Moses and Jesus Christ (Peace be upon them)
Muslim is a person who submits his will to God.
Jesus (pbuh) said, "not my will but thy will be done." i.e. Muslim.
John 5:30
Al-Qur'an 5:82


Both Jews and Christians misunderstood the position of Jesus Christ(Peace be upon him).
Find me a single statement of Jesus (PBUH) from the complete Bible where he himself says I am God and worship me but yet all Christians worship him.
In the other hands Jews are still waiting for Christ to come who already came in the world as Jesus(PBUH)
In short Jews believe all the prophets except Jesus and Muhammad (peace be upon them)
Christians believe all the Prophets except the last prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him)
Muslims believe in all the prophets of Christians and Jews and the last and final Prophet who is also prophesized in the Old Testament and New Testament.
As I said human beings can make mistake to understand the difference between good and bad and you are the perfect example if you rejects Islam which is only acceptable way of life in the sight of God and Islam is a logical believe not a blind believe. There is no compulsion in religion. You should study all the religions from the root sources not by followers. I am a student of Islam and comparative religions, you can see that I have quoted a lot of verses from Bible in this forum and no Christian or Jew quoted a single verse from Bible. I assume most of the atheists in this forum are from Christian background. There must be no one who has tried to learn Islam from the right source but from anti Islamic websites.

Why don’t you give a try to learn about Islam? Don't be afraid that someone will brainwash you but may purify you :)


No thanks!

Atheists are pure enough and already know the truth!


You are Welcome Paphitis

There is no compulsion in Religion.

Bare witness that I have conveyed you the message to believe in One and only God and worship him alone and do not associate partner with him.

May God almighty guide us all to the right path.


Intermoon, I can prove to you that "God" does not exist.

Do you promise to drop Islam if I point you to the path of righteous Atheism?


Yes sure Paphitis

I always welcome others to correct me if I am wrong.


I am pleased for you Intermoon. Soon you will come to understand how wrong you have been all along.

Just be patient and I will lead you to the right path! :)


Yes sure, I am very patient because


1-By (the Token of) Time (through the ages),

2- Verily Man is in loss,

3- Except such as have Faith, and do righteous deeds, and (join together) in the mutual teaching of Truth, and of Patience and Constancy.

(Quran 103/1-4)
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Postby Me Ed » Sun May 09, 2010 8:48 pm

intermoon wrote:
Me Ed wrote:The quran invalidates itself.

By applying some simple logic, If you believe the quran is the unerring word of God and you can find a single scientific error in it, then this renders the whole book invalid ...

The open post in this thread proves this and thus renders the whole of the quran invalid.




This post proves that no one has proved a single sciencetific error in the Quran therefore Quran is the word of God.

Do you want me to post some sciencetific errors from Bible which I don’t intend because I do not want to criticize other religions to hurt the feelings of Christians or Jews

The Earth is NOT shaped like an ostrich egg.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Figure_of_the_Earth
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Postby cyprusgrump » Sun May 09, 2010 8:50 pm

intermoon wrote:
Paphitis wrote:
intermoon wrote:
Paphitis wrote:
intermoon wrote:
Paphitis wrote:
intermoon wrote:
CopperLine wrote:
I think that it is not mess but needs explanation.

When I said that God can cure the cancer if he wants means it is something he can do and we find many examples around us. Whenever there is calamity in this world, it can be either punishment or test for people, it can be Punishment for bad people and test for good people. Only God alone knows the truth and only he can be judge between good and bad.


Was that an explanation ? So only god knows,and human beings can't know. Therefore, logically, human beings cannot know whether their illness is a punishment or a test. Human beings can't know what is a good action or a bad action nor can they know which of their actions is to be punished or tested. The jealous arbitrary god that you've just presented here is therefore an irrational god. Well done intermoon. where


When I said that there are something even God Almighty cannot do, for Example he cannot create another God because by definition God is un created therefore how can he create an uncreated, another example is that he cannot kick you out of his kingdom because whole universe belongs to him. He may evaporates you but you will be still in his Kingdom.


This is nonsense on stilts.

Concept of God in Islam not like other religions and Islam is not like other religion just a set of beliefs but it is a complete way of life.


What is the concept of god in islam, given that it is derived from judaism and christiantity ? Like them there are different concepts of god in islam and different traditions in allthose religions would and do claim that religion is "a complete way of life." This is not peculiar to Islam.

All religions teach to do good things but unlike other religions, Islam also teaches how achieve that state of goodness. For example all religions teach not to rob but Islam beside teaches not to rob also guide us what laws should be implemented in the society to stop it.


This is also nonsense. Islam more than christianity and judaism teaches obedience, that is submission, to god. They do not teach to do 'good things',they teach to fulfil the word of god (whatever that is). Go back to your paragraph 1, intermoon, where you said "Only God alone knows the truth and only he can be judge between good and bad." If that is the case then human beings can't knowingly do good (or bad).


I said only God knows the truth what is in the hearts of people and he is the one who can judge. You and me can know the truth but we can also make mistakes but God almighty cannot make mistake that is why I said he is only one who knows the truth. Don’t take the meaning literally.

You may know how to play with words but I am here to expose the truth not to play with words. No one of you has answered a single sciencetific facts found in the Quran. It was impossible any human being had known those facts 1400 years ago.

It is a misconception that Islam is a new religion and Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him) was the founder of this religion, infact Islam is there since the time in memorial; Prophet Muhammad was not the founder but the last and final prophet of Islam. If you study Bible, you will not find any religion by the name of Christianity or Judaism but it was the names given by people to followers of Moses and Jesus Christ (Peace be upon them)
Muslim is a person who submits his will to God.
Jesus (pbuh) said, "not my will but thy will be done." i.e. Muslim.
John 5:30
Al-Qur'an 5:82


Both Jews and Christians misunderstood the position of Jesus Christ(Peace be upon him).
Find me a single statement of Jesus (PBUH) from the complete Bible where he himself says I am God and worship me but yet all Christians worship him.
In the other hands Jews are still waiting for Christ to come who already came in the world as Jesus(PBUH)
In short Jews believe all the prophets except Jesus and Muhammad (peace be upon them)
Christians believe all the Prophets except the last prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him)
Muslims believe in all the prophets of Christians and Jews and the last and final Prophet who is also prophesized in the Old Testament and New Testament.
As I said human beings can make mistake to understand the difference between good and bad and you are the perfect example if you rejects Islam which is only acceptable way of life in the sight of God and Islam is a logical believe not a blind believe. There is no compulsion in religion. You should study all the religions from the root sources not by followers. I am a student of Islam and comparative religions, you can see that I have quoted a lot of verses from Bible in this forum and no Christian or Jew quoted a single verse from Bible. I assume most of the atheists in this forum are from Christian background. There must be no one who has tried to learn Islam from the right source but from anti Islamic websites.

Why don’t you give a try to learn about Islam? Don't be afraid that someone will brainwash you but may purify you :)


No thanks!

Atheists are pure enough and already know the truth!


You are Welcome Paphitis

There is no compulsion in Religion.

Bare witness that I have conveyed you the message to believe in One and only God and worship him alone and do not associate partner with him.

May God almighty guide us all to the right path.


Intermoon, I can prove to you that "God" does not exist.

Do you promise to drop Islam if I point you to the path of righteous Atheism?


Yes sure Paphitis

I always welcome others to correct me if I am wrong.


I am pleased for you Intermoon. Soon you will come to understand how wrong you have been all along.

Just be patient and I will lead you to the right path! :)


Yes sure, I am very patient because


1-By (the Token of) Time (through the ages),

2- Verily Man is in loss,

3- Except such as have Faith, and do righteous deeds, and (join together) in the mutual teaching of Truth, and of Patience and Constancy.

(Quran 103/1-4)


Can you not provide any proof other than quoting from the Quran?

Can you not see how ridiculous this is...?
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Postby CopperLine » Sun May 09, 2010 9:15 pm

intermoon wrote:


This argument is dealt with by atheists including very well by Richard Dawkins in 'Weaving the rainbow" and in "Climbing Mount improbable."

See his 1991 Royal Institution lectures at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YT1vXXMsYak

But his books in evolutionary biology are simply brilliant.
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Postby intermoon » Sun May 09, 2010 9:22 pm

Me Ed wrote:
intermoon wrote:
Me Ed wrote:The quran invalidates itself.

By applying some simple logic, If you believe the quran is the unerring word of God and you can find a single scientific error in it, then this renders the whole book invalid ...

The open post in this thread proves this and thus renders the whole of the quran invalid.




This post proves that no one has proved a single sciencetific error in the Quran therefore Quran is the word of God.

Do you want me to post some sciencetific errors from Bible which I don’t intend because I do not want to criticize other religions to hurt the feelings of Christians or Jews

The Earth is NOT shaped like an ostrich egg.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Figure_of_the_Earth


[img]
Image



Image
[/img]

Please dont phool yourself, :)
It does look like the egg of ostrich.

Who could have mention about the shape of the earth in the Quran 1400 years ago?

Lets see what Bible says about the shape of the earth



Man thought untill 15th century that the world is Flat when first man sailed arround the world to find out that it is not flat.

Scientists about Quran

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Postby cyprusgrump » Sun May 09, 2010 9:28 pm

Intermonn, unlike you (apparently) I have seen an ostrich egg and I can assure you it looks nothing like the shape of the earth! :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Postby CBBB » Sun May 09, 2010 9:30 pm

intermoon obviously has been indoctrinated from birth to believe weird things, it is probably best to leave him/her/it to get on with it.
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Postby CopperLine » Sun May 09, 2010 9:30 pm

That we knew that the earth was not flat, that it was sphere, was known and scientifically demonstrated before the circumnavigation of the world. Indeed it was known to be a sphere prior to the supposed divine revelation to the illiterate Mohammad.
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Postby cyprusgrump » Sun May 09, 2010 9:33 pm

CopperLine wrote:That we knew that the earth was not flat, that it was sphere, was known and scientifically demonstrated before the circumnavigation of the world. Indeed it was known to be a sphere prior to the supposed divine revelation to the illiterate Mohammad.


Did his schoolgirl bride tell him...? :x
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Postby Me Ed » Sun May 09, 2010 9:35 pm

intermoon wrote:
Me Ed wrote:
intermoon wrote:
Me Ed wrote:The quran invalidates itself.

By applying some simple logic, If you believe the quran is the unerring word of God and you can find a single scientific error in it, then this renders the whole book invalid ...

The open post in this thread proves this and thus renders the whole of the quran invalid.




This post proves that no one has proved a single sciencetific error in the Quran therefore Quran is the word of God.

Do you want me to post some sciencetific errors from Bible which I don’t intend because I do not want to criticize other religions to hurt the feelings of Christians or Jews

The Earth is NOT shaped like an ostrich egg.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Figure_of_the_Earth


[img]
Image



Image

Please dont phool yourself, :)
It does look like the egg of ostrich.

Who could have mention about the shape of the earth in the Quran 1400 years ago?

Lets see what Bible says about the shape of the earth



Man thought untill 15th century that the world is Flat when first man sailed arround the world to find out that it is not flat.

Scientists about Quran


Nice try, but your are the fool for presenting these shapes in 2 dimensions:

The Earth is a Oblate spheroid:

Image

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oblate_spheroid

An ostrich egg is a Prolate spheroid:

Image

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prolate_spheroid
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