Cyprus-Forum.com

[Bananiot]

It may be true that the majority of the GC,s do not want enosis right now. However, the vast majority of those that do not want enosis, are people who have realised that enosis simply isn't on. Even if there was the slightest chance for a struggle for enosis to succeed, the majority would be for enosis and the rest would be branded traitors, just like before. Thus, conforming with realities, is a favourable pastime with GC,s it appears, but after paying a hefty price.

Were you always against enosis Piratis and if not what has changed your mind?

[insan]

Turkey made no mistake. Mission is accomplished as planed for them.

But the consequences of July 1974 don't verify this... Either Turkey made a mistake or the concerned parties changed their plans afterwards the events of 74.

Or their plans was "innocent" as it can easily be proved by Denktash-Klerides letters of 1967-71 period but Grivas himself played the killjoy I assume.

There are several US library of congress reports which indicates Grivases improper actions against US policy and Greek Junta...

Remember that he was called by Athens in 1967 and secretly returned back to Cyprus to establish EOKA-B.

Perhaps his priority was to browbeat Makarios and leftists in order to make them change their policies and support Enosis. Leftists by leadership of Makarios were very strong in that era and was being supported by USSR...

I believe that Makarios had really changed his policy in 1967 when he publicly declared that Enosis wasn't feasible anymore... Thta's why inter communal strife could had been stopped for a while and no inter communal violence took place between the years 1967-71 till Grivases secret return to Cyprus....

It was hard for TCs to trust Makarios who once was a feary defender of Enosis and then declared that Enosis wasn't feasible anymore... Furthermore, he was still under enforcement of ultra nationalist GCs and Greek Junta...

And it is highly probable that US passiveness against ultra nationalists and Greek Junta had arised from their anti-communist stance... It is clear that, in that cold war era US allowed some marigin to Grivases extreme actions because his anti-communist actions serving USes interests...

I don't think the division of Cyprus was in US plan. Remeber in 1967 they prevented the strongly probable Turkish intervention which the Turkish government of that era was seriously decisive to intervene...

In 1967 Turkish intervention posponed, Grivas was called by Athens, Makarios publicly declared that Enosis wasn't feasible anymore, intercommunal strife had stopped and negotiations among Denktash and Klerides was going well...

Wasn't that US who provided this climate? What had changed then in 1971 when Grivas secretly returned Cyprus and established EOKA-B?







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[insan]

If we had looked at our own interests as Cypriots we might have managed to go against the interests of those foreigners (Turkey, UK, US, Greece of junta) and had something that would work for us.

I agree with that but it's a well known fact that there are very strong pro-western and mainland compradors on both sides. Is the power of rest of the Cypriots sufficient to keep them away and work for our own interests? I don't think so...

If it was like that everything would go in direction and will of the rest of the Cypriots...

[Piratis]

Were you always against enosis Piratis and if not what has changed your mind?

I was born in the Republic of Cyprus and I never had the dilemma of "enosis or not enosis". For me Cyprus is our country and thats it.

Theoretically speaking, if the option of union with Greece was offered today, I would reject it without thinking more than a second about it. We have better standards than Greece and we are in the EU now. Also, our island is already divided, and union with Greece now would probably mean that such division would become permanent. Why would I want Cyprus to become a far district of another country. How Greek we are is shown by our culture and our language, I don't have any complexes. For me the Cyprus flag comes first and is above all others.

Of course, if you were asking me the same question 40-50-60 years ago the answer would have probably been different. At that time we had one ruler after the other. We were always slaves for them. Union with Greece meant freedom, and it also meant a lot more security. If Cyprus was united with Greece 60-70 years ago (e.g. after world war II), probably we wouldn't have a divided island today.

[MicAtCyp]

Regarding the attitute of Denktash in the past and that of today.Denktash TODAY is immitating our OWN attitute of the PAST. The TCs were then asking for what was RIGHT but Clerides and Makarios were making a big fuss out of nothing.Now that the TC side has the upper hand (backed up by the force of the Turkish army) when we ask for what is OBVIOUSLY lawful and right Denktash refuses to accept it.Typical immitation of our own "stuborn donkey" behaviour of the past.

Up until today we never had the chance to have leaders in power in both communities who could put themselves in the position of the other community and ask themselves "would I accept this or that if I was a member of the other Community"? Such leaders do exist in both communities.The best example is Akinci.

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I repeat my question to Bananiot and Mehmet. We all know there are rumors that the Akritas Plan was prepared by Yorkatzis and Papadopoulos -never heard of Klerides- but are these just rumors or are they a fact? I mean did anyone of them ever admitted it? Is there any evidence? I ask this question to fill up my knowledge-not to dispute your arguments.If you have some information I will apreciate if you share it with me.

The only information I have so far is that Papadopoulos married the rich widow of Yorkatzis after Yorkatzis was assassinated. Ha, ha ha... What a hilarious marriage!! Did they share anything else?

[mehmet]

I base my knowledge on what I read in a book called 'The road to Bellapais' by someone by the name of Pierre Oberling. The plan was published in a Greek newspaper called Patris on April 21, 1966 and was signed by someone called Akritas who is widely believed to be Yorgdakis. Is Akritas some legend in Greek history in the same way Dighenis is? I will quote from the book which is where I get my information on this matter from

'Once the Supreme Constitutional Court had been effectively neutralised, Makarios was able to devote all his energies to bringing about hte complete dissolution of the Republic. There was no need to wait until the United Nations had backed his demand for self-detemination to bring matters to a head. Now that much of the world was willing to believe that the turkish Cypriots had made the Constitution unworkable by their irresponsible use of the veto, the Constitution could be unilaterally altered, for the official purpose of eliminating such abuses but actually to achieve enosis by legal means. In order to implement this scheme, Makarios entrusted Polykarpos Yorgdakis, Tassos Papadopoulos and Glafkos Klerides with the taksk of formulating a secret plan of action. This plan, the famous 'Akritas Plan'.....

Obviously if there are any alternative explanations as to the ownership of this plan then I would be interested to hear it.

[Bananiot]

I would suggest a small and easily read book by Efstathios Lagakos called "Laikismos sta ethnika themata". It is very revealing and it is a book that should be read by everyone that has an interest in politics.

[metecyp]

I repeat my question to Bananiot and Mehmet. We all know there are rumors that the Akritas Plan was prepared by Yorkatzis and Papadopoulos -never heard of Klerides- but are these just rumors or are they a fact? I mean did anyone of them ever admitted it? Is there any evidence?

In Klerides' book "Cypurs-My Disposition", there's a chapter about the Akritas plan. I'm sure he also mentions who prepared the plan. I'll try to check when I can.