Cyprus-Forum.com

[MicAtCyp]

About the EU road of Turkey regarding Cyprus.The first voices started up.Full recognition of RoC, restitution of ownership rights, removal of troops. These voces will never silence.They were just the begining.A kind of warning. They will let Turkey start but they will push her constantly.At some point Turkey will give in. And I beleive she will do sop not be longer than 1/3rd of her journey. i.e between 5-7 years from today.

UN resolutions are not 'international laws'. They can be and are often are a guide to such but they are not in themselves such. If there were a competent court to make a _judicial_ decsion about the 'legality' of a purely GC run RoC as sole legitimate government of all of Cyprus - I can see no way that it could rule it as 'legitimate' (nor can I see any moral basis either for that matter).

That's the difference between court and politics.Courts can decide on one issue only.Politics is a combination of issues.Example: I go to court accused of braking the glasses of the house of my neighbour. The fact that my neighbour killed my dog doesn’t count.So I am convicted to a fine.The next day I sue my neighbour and pays 4 times bigger fine for killing my dog.

Similar with the matter of RoC being the only legitimate government in Cyprus despite the fact that is run only by GCs. If there will be ONLY one court trial that would mean nothing.There should be 4-5 trials on all the issues relevant to it. And the juristiction and "fines" paid for each one separately get summed up-if there was ever a way to do that .The summing up of "fines" would translate to the RoC beeing the one and only Legitimate Gvnt in Cyprus.

[erolz]

They will let Turkey start but they will push her constantly.At some point Turkey will give in. And I beleive she will do sop not be longer than 1/3rd of her journey. i.e between 5-7 years from today.

Do you think she (Turkey) will agree full recognition of the RoC as it exists today regardless of any compromises the RoC makes or does not make on the the Cyprus issues and regadless of the status of any settlment plans?

That's the difference between court and politics.Courts can decide on one issue only.Politics is a combination of issues.Example: I go to court accused of braking the glasses of the house of my neighbour. The fact that my neighbour killed my dog doesn’t count.So I am convicted to a fine.The next day I sue my neighbour and pays 4 times bigger fine for killing my dog.

Similar with the matter of RoC being the only legitimate government in Cyprus despite the fact that is run only by GCs. If there will be ONLY one court trial that would mean nothing.There should be 4-5 trials on all the issues relevant to it. And the juristiction and "fines" paid for each one separately get summed up-if there was ever a way to do that .The summing up of "fines" would translate to the RoC beeing the one and only Legitimate Gvnt in Cyprus.

I can't say I understood any of that?

To me national laws are based on the idea that "laws enacted and enforced are done so for the benefit of its society: i.e. promoting its general welfare."

To me international political decisons and most international law for that matter (like the UN resolution in 64 that is the source that alledegly 'legitimises' the RoC as it exists today as the sole legitmate government of all of cyprus and all cypriots) are not based on this idea of doing a 'general good' (for all people in all countries) but purley on the percieved self interest of the states concerned. The 64 UN resolution passed not on any assment by those that passed it based on is it 'right' or is it 'wrong' to accept a solely GC controlled RoC as a legitmate government of all of Cyprus (as far as the resolution actually did this). It was based soley on the basis 'does it futher my (my countries) self interest to agree this resolution or not'. Clearly in the case of the non aliginged states in the UN at the time it did serve the precvieved best interests to vote for the resolution.

This to me is the essense of the issue.

Ever since securing this political decison many GC and many GC leaderships have sought to maximise the benefits of this political decsion as a 'weapon' against the TC community - portraying it as a 'judicial' or 'moral' ruling that can not be questioned in any legal or moral sense and anyone who does so is rejecting the 'rule of law' and 'justice', when in fact it has (imo) little or no legal or moral basis and was secured through 'politics' and political considerations alone and has nothing to do with 'justice' at all. I understand why the GC do this and I have little doubt that if we had secured such political victories we would behave in similar ways. What it does mean however is that I view GC arguments about 'rule of law' and 'international law' relating to the legitmacy of the RoC as it exits today as being less to do with 'legality' and 'morality' and 'justice' and more to do with GC desire to use every and any 'stick' they have available with which to beat the TC community in Cyprus.

A lot of this 'view' derives and is compatible to this article I have placed in the forums before

http://66.102.9.104/search?q=cache:TPEK ... ell95.html

If the basis of national law is the virtue of altruism, then clearly the basis of international law is ethical egoism.

[gabaston]

If Turkey is pushed in Islam thats the beginning of the end for Turkey as we know it today. It will brake up into parts.

not too sure about that, i think they see themsleves as turks first then muslims.

[Murtaza]

If Turkey is pushed in Islam thats the beginning of the end for Turkey as we know it today. It will brake up into parts.

not too sure about that, i think they see themsleves as turks first then muslims.

well look at Iran, Persian people of iran is just 51% , 30% turk and others arab and kurds,they didnt brake up.

[ChomskyFan]

If Turkey is pushed in Islam thats the beginning of the end for Turkey as we know it today. It will brake up into parts.

not too sure about that, i think they see themsleves as turks first then muslims.

well look at Iran, Persian people of iran is just 51% , 30% turk and others arab and kurds,they didnt brake up.

You've obviously never been to Iran, Islam is about the only thing holding the country together ironically, but that's about to change - A lot of Persians are leaving Islam and trying to get in touch with their old Persian roots.

[gabaston]

wtf is it with chomsky and islam- he must be some religious fanatic.

oi chomsky the name of this forun is Cyprus Forum - not religion forum

FO to some religion site and preach your hate filled religious beliefs there, you embarace you own people here and are turning this into a mockery.

These are my last words to or about your unwelcome views, i hope other posters will ignore you 2.

[cypezokyli]

when it comes to the recognision of RoC by turkey...

pap didnt expect the surprised gift from france. and for sure he was not responsible.

i dont have a clue what is going to happen. i think for pap it is a knife that can cut him from both sides.

lets face it, for many years the EU was hiding behind greece to keep turkey away from europe. now they are using cyprus. especially after the failure of the constitution and the rising anti-turkish feeling.

for pap, imo there are three ways

1. he uses the unexpected support from the europeans to force turkey recognise the RoC. would that happen?
assuming yes, my preiction would be that erdogan is history
assuming no. turkeys prospect for the EU declines and most probably the ones who will have to pay the price its us, and in no case france or denmark. let aside the effect in turkey it self

in any case, recognition of RoC doesnot mean a solution to the cyprus problem

2. he doesnt demand the recognision, and looses face in the the cypriot opinion, after raising high expectations

that s the knife that cuts from both sides that i was talking about

3. he could go to tayip and tell him: Look for some reason they support me right now. why dont u give me this and this changes in the Aplan and we sign it before 3rd of october.
imo its the only chance we have against turkey. because if turkey looses the EU prospect we have no chance and if turkey keeps the EU prospect without having any obligations to solve the cyprus problem we again loose.
that ofcource assumes that pap wants some changes and not a whole new thing...

plus i would like to mention another parameter. taking the antiturkish feeling that exists in europe right now, as given.
in a likely solution non -cooperating tcs politicians would provide a bad example for a likely turkeys accession in the EU. on the other hand a nice cooperative beggining in cyprus would show to the rest of europe that : look despite the fact that they have a veto, despite the fact that they r turks, it works perfectly nice in cyprus.

or am i way out of reality?