Cyprus-Forum.com

[Viewpoint]

Again you are twisting and fabricating details to fit your own agenda which is to take the onerous of enosis and place the blame 100% on taksim, you cannot do this has they go hand in hand. I will yet again attempt to clarify what happened and why we are divided today in a few simple words.

Without enosis there would never have been taksim.

VP, how come you always end up missing the point? If taksim (or partition) was directed against enosis how come the TMT murdered innocent TC activitists whose only "crime" was to campaign for peaceful co-existence? Don't you see a problem here?

That is why I maintain that taksim was a campaign in reality not against enosis but against Cypriot independence and peaceful co-existence between GCs and TCs.

I go further, whereas the GCs have long since abandoned enosis as a goal, the TCs are still pursuing the policies of violently-enforced self-segregation or "taksim". In effect the TCs are still the dupes of Ankara and are still sacrificing their community's future in pursuit of Ankara's policies.

You are wrong and trying to misconstrue matters into a format that you want to believe was the truth. The reality is there will always be people who oppose a movement, were there not GCs who opposed enosis that were killed for wanting peaceful co-existence with TCs? The desire of the GCs was not for independence which was just a stepping stone to the ultimate prize enosis this in turn fueled the desire for taksim, without enosis taksim would never have happened.

[Hermes]

You are wrong and trying to misconstrue matters into a format that you want to believe was the truth. The reality is there will always be people who oppose a movement, were there not GCs who opposed enosis that were killed for wanting peaceful co-existence with TCs? The desire of the GCs was not for independence which was just a stepping stone to the ultimate prize enosis this in turn fueled the desire for taksim, without enosis taksim would never have happened.

This is not about which came first: enosis or taksim. Historically, it is recognised that it was the TMT who initiated inter-communal violence in 1958. Up till then both sides had lived relatively peacefully. That is not my point.

The point is about today. And how the TMT terrorist policies at the time: violent self-segregation, a refusal to co-operate with agents of the government and the assassination of TC activists, was a deliberate campaign against the idea of Cypriot independence and peaceful co-existence.

What the TMT wanted - and what they achieved - was to bring about the conditions of civil strife and then claim that civil strife is why we need partition and then through violence to enforce that partition. It was not until 1974 that these policies could find their final fruition under the pretext, once more, of preventing an enosis that no GC believed in anymore.

These are the conditions under which Cyprus is divided today. The current partition of the island and all the mistrust, is a continuation of the same policies that Ankara and the TMT were pursuing in the 1960s. Nothing has changed for the TCs. It is still pretty much the same mindset. It is still why you, in particular, argue that peaceful co-existence is not possible.

And that is why those innocent TCs who were advocating the opposite ideas of peace and co-existence, were murdered in cold blood. It was so the TMT and Turkey could bring about the current partition of the island.

[Viewpoint]

You are wrong and trying to misconstrue matters into a format that you want to believe was the truth. The reality is there will always be people who oppose a movement, were there not GCs who opposed enosis that were killed for wanting peaceful co-existence with TCs? The desire of the GCs was not for independence which was just a stepping stone to the ultimate prize enosis this in turn fueled the desire for taksim, without enosis taksim would never have happened.

This is not about which came first: enosis or taksim. Historically, it is recognised that it was the TMT who initiated inter-communal violence in 1958. Up till then both sides had lived relatively peacefully. That is not my point.

The point is about today. And how the TMT terrorist policies at the time: violent self-segregation, a refusal to co-operate with agents of the government and the assassination of TC activists, was a deliberate campaign against the idea of Cypriot independence and peaceful co-existence.

What the TMT wanted - and what they achieved - was to bring about the conditions of civil strife and then claim that civil strife is why we need partition and then through violence to enforce that partition. It was not until 1974 that these policies could find their final fruition under the pretext, once more, of preventing an enosis that no GC believed in anymore.

These are the conditions under which Cyprus is divided today. The current partition of the island and all the mistrust, is a continuation of the same policies that Ankara and the TMT were pursuing in the 1960s. Nothing has changed for the TCs. It is still pretty much the same mindset. It is still why you, in particular, argue that peaceful co-existence is not possible.

And that is why those innocent TCs who were advocating the opposite ideas of peace and co-existence, were murdered in cold blood. It was so the TMT and Turkey could bring about the current partition of the island.

Again you are wrong and have your school book theories fed to you by your propaganda machines, your alleged fight for "Cypriot independence and peaceful co-existence" was a pretext a facade a stepping stone towards achieving your ultimate goal of enosis...get rid of the Brits and TCs will be a piece of cake....it was only in the knowledge of your dream to gift the country to Greece that triggered the TCs into action pursuing and realizing their desire to create a safe haven out of the clutches of GCs who had treated them so badly in the past. Now do you understand why your reasoning is so flawed, even after 1960 the enosis dream was very much alive and kicking the problem was not now the Brits but the TCs so the practice of getting rid of them was in full swing as the enticed Tcs to leave for Canada Australia and UK (my parents included) and a policy to purchase TC land at high prices so as not to allow other TCs to have a chance of purchasing the land. It all backfired when Greece and the GCs couldnt wait and got greedy, wanting the whole island to unite with Greece immediately culminating with the coup in 1974...the rest is history.

So please refrain from manipulating history to support your own version of how and why thing developed the way they day, the biggest reason for the division of the island was the GCS dream for enosis and you eoka terrorists.

[Hermes]

Again you are wrong and have your school book theories fed to you by your propaganda machines, your alleged fight for "Cypriot independence and peaceful co-existence" was a pretext a facade a stepping stone towards achieving your ultimate goal of enosis...get rid of the Brits and TCs will be a piece of cake...

Look VP. The Turkish Cypriots activists who were murdered by the TMT terrorists were not advocating enosis. They were advocating peaceful co-existence. That is why they were murdered. If the TMT terrorists were fighting enosis why would they kill people who had nothing to do with enosis?

The only crime of the murdered TC activists was that they rejected Turkey and the TMT's agenda of violent self-segregation. The TMT and Turkey were opposed to anyone in favour of Cypriot independence and peaceful co-existence. So they killed them. In cold blood. By gunshot.

Everything that happened after was to bring a final violent conclusion to the entire TMT campaign of enforced segregation. That was the point of 1974 and 1983 as you yourself said. Except it was not directed against enosis which was dead to most GCs in 1974 and 1983. It was directed against Cypriot independence and co-existence. What else was there? Why else expel and cleanse the north of its entire population of GCs? Were they also advocating enosis at the time? Of course not! Why not admit the truth? What is the problem here?

Sadly, the answer lies in the fact that TCs cannot admit they are still the dupes of Ankara's policies today. But you prove it every time you insist that enosis was the reason the TMT killed innocent members of the TC community and the reason why GCs were expelled from the north of the island. Only the facts don't fit this big Turkish lie.

The TMT didn't murder innocent TCs because they believed in enosis. But because the TMT actually believed in violent and enforced self-segregation and were prepared to sacrifice anyone who got in their way. Just as the TMT's sponsor, Turkey, was prepared to do to the GCs in 1974.

[Viewpoint]

Hermes you have it wrong yet again the enosis dream was not dead during 1960 to 1974 independence was a stepping stone towards selling us out to Greece, the collapse of the government in 1963 and the continued persecution of TCs was all part of the master plan to unite the island with Greece, You kid no one when you claim GCs gave up the ideology of enosis for a free independent Cyprus all you have to do is listen to the pervert makarios and his speeches, the fact the Akel supported enosis and the Akritas plan all the were during those years you claim were enosis free. Where were you when TCs were second class citizens discriminated against forced out of their homes at gunpoint not by the TMT but GCs they regarded as their neighbors and friends.

If you answer the question why eoka terrorists killed innocent GCs in cold blood for not supporting their sell out plans enosis and for supporting independence and co existence because they were not supporting taksim, then you will have the answer you seek.

[Hermes]

If you answer the question why eoka terrorists killed innocent GCs in cold blood for not supporting their sell out plans enosis and for supporting independence and co existence because they were not supporting taksim, then you will have the answer you seek.

I'm sorry VP but you are behaving like a robot which doesn't understand the question. My question is why did the Turkish sponsored TMT militias kill innocent Turkish Cypriots who were not involved in any campaign for enosis? If you think about this simple question you will be led to a simple answer. Those TCs were murdered because they advocated an independent Cyprus and peaceful co-existence. The TMT didn't kill those innocent TCs because those innocent TCs wanted enosis. That would be absurd!

Which leads to a further conclusion. The TMT were not fighting against "enosis" but actually against an independent Cyprus and peaceful co-existence. A fact which is supported by the UN Secretary General at the time who accused the Turkish Cypriot leadership of being "committed to physical and geographical separation of the communities as a political goal... not likely to encourage activities by Turkish Cypriots which may be interpreted as demonstrating the merits of an alternative policy. The result has been a seemingly deliberate policy of self-segregation by the Turkish Cypriots."

So we have a deliberate policy of TC self-segregation and the assassination of those TCs who advocated alternative peaceful policies. No-one was forcing the TCs into enclaves but their own leadership! Thus the fight against "enosis" became the phantom upon which the edifice of taksim was built. But the whole edifice collapses once you consider the murder of those innocent TC activists who had no interest in advocating enosis.

Instead, the reason for their deaths and what they bear to witness to, is that they fought for an independent Cyprus and peaceful co-existence. And that is why the TMT terrorists, in a deliberate psychopathic calculation, murdered them. In so doing they undermined their own self-proclaimed motives. For as it turns out they were not fighting "enosis" at all but against the very idea of peaceful co-existence on the island. And that is what you are finding so very hard to accept.

[Viewpoint]

If you answer the question why eoka terrorists killed innocent GCs in cold blood for not supporting their sell out plans enosis and for supporting independence and co existence because they were not supporting taksim, then you will have the answer you seek.

I'm sorry VP but you are behaving like a robot which doesn't understand the question. My question is why did the Turkish sponsored TMT militias kill innocent Turkish Cypriots who were not involved in any campaign for enosis? If you think about this simple question you will be led to a simple answer. Those TCs were murdered because they advocated an independent Cyprus and peaceful co-existence. The TMT didn't kill those innocent TCs because they wanted enosis.

And you are being bloody minded how do you know these TCs were innocent maybe they were traitors or sell outs, lets say for arguments sake they were fooled that GCs were really for independence and co existence now we all know for sure that GCs were using independence as a pretext to achieve their ultimate goal of enosis (refer to the treatment of TCs between 1960 and 1974) placing these innocent TCs in the line of fire.

Which leads to a further conclusion. The TMT were not fighting against "enosis" but actually against an independent Cyprus and peaceful co-existence. A fact which is supported by the UN Secretary General at the time who accused the Turkish Cypriot leadership of being "committed to physical and geographical separation of the communities as a political goal... not likely to encourage activities by Turkish Cypriots which may be interpreted as demonstrating the merits of an alternative policy. The result has been a seemingly deliberate policy of self-segregation by the Turkish Cypriots."

How many times do i have say this GCs were not for an independent Cyprus and peaceful co-existence this was a just a steping stone towards enosis, the segregation was the result of GC actions which were planned and instigated.

So we have a deliberate policy of self-segregation and the assassination of those TCs who advocated alternative peaceful policies. Enosis became the phantom upon which the edifice of taksim was built. But the whole edifice collapses once you consider the murder of those innocent TC activists who had no interest in advocating enosis.

This is what you want to believe that why you advocate it to sweep away your responsibility and blame for supporting enosis and dividing the island.

Instead, the reason for their deaths and what they bear to witness to, is that they fought for an independent Cyprus and peaceful co-existence. And that is why the TMT terrorists, in a deliberate psychopathic calculation, murdered them. In so doing they undermined their own self-proclamed motives. For they were not fighting "enosis" at all but the very idea of peaceful co-existence on the island. And that is what you are finding so very hard to accept...

We have to agree that we will never see eye to eye on this issue as you want to rewrite and excuse the fact that the enosis dream and eoka terrorists were the catalyst for where we are today divided, placing the blame on taksim and TMT.

[B25]

Well herm, it is pretty clear to all now, that the TMT terrorists were turkeys tool to establish partition and thats why they murdered their own.

Enosis has nothing to do with it, but is being used as an excuse by VP and others to justify their criminal actions. Nice one could not be easier to understand. Thanks for putting it so brilliantly.

If I ever need a lawyer mate, I'll call you.

VP darling, hermes has owned you, give it up, you have run out of BS to say.

[Viewpoint]

Well herm, it is pretty clear to all now, that the TMT terrorists were turkeys tool to establish partition and thats why they murdered their own.

Enosis has nothing to do with it, but is being used as an excuse by VP and others to justify their criminal actions. Nice one could not be easier to understand. Thanks for putting it so brilliantly.

If I ever need a lawyer mate, I'll call you.

VP darling, hermes has owned you, give it up, you have run out of BS to say.

You are a sheep.

[bill cobbett]

Again you are twisting and fabricating details to fit your own agenda which is to take the onerous of enosis and place the blame 100% on taksim, you cannot do this has they go hand in hand. I will yet again attempt to clarify what happened and why we are divided today in a few simple words.

Without enosis there would never have been taksim.

Seems clearer than ever, given what Hermes has written in the past day or so, that whatever form CY Independence took, say even one with normal majority rule in an independent state so if specifically we take enosis and eoka completely out of the equation, it would not have effected the outcome and the activities of the Terrorist Group "tmt/volkan" under the direction of the Turkish Deep State to organise and prepare for Turkish Invasion and Annexation.

Enosis/eoka gave and still gives the excuse and justification... but the really good test is take these factors away and ask what Turkey and its Agents would have done without them.