Cyprus-Forum.com

[Maximus]

I dont want to rule you VP, why would you look at it like this if you are a Cypriot, for Cypriots and for Cyprus? Even the "foreigners" dont look at it like this, they take part in the Cypriot political process as a normal resident/citizen and they get on just fine.

we have beaten this dead horse too many times before when it comes to the interpretation and the 'content' of this BBF. I am sure you may agree, these talks being conducted along BBF lines have not and probably will not yield results. It all seems far too difficult because neither side can make any substantive progress.

[repulsewarrior]

...Bicommunal does not mean "Greek/Turk", it means "Individual/Person"; you will not be able to represent yourself (and yourselves) solely as Persons, you will have to respect the fact that above any "fillinthe blankness" there is an equality where the Humanity within us finds its expression as well.

...Bizonal does not mean tearing the island it two, it means that there is a whole, and within that whole Constituencies.

[Viewpoint]

I dont want to rule you VP, why would you look at it like this if you are a Cypriot, for Cypriots and for Cyprus? Even the "foreigners" dont look at it like this, they take part in the Cypriot political process as a normal resident/citizen and they get on just fine.

we have beaten this dead horse too many times before when it comes to the interpretation and the 'content' of this BBF. I am sure you may agree, these talks being conducted along BBF lines have not and probably will not yield results. It all seems far too difficult because neither side can make any substantive progress.

This "Cypriot" thing that you hide behind doesnt work with us, its just a smoke screen as you know the majority of "Cypriots" are GCs, we stand no chance of making any progress when you consider that in a unitary state which is what you support the majority of people in power will be GCs, why do you want to expose me to to this risk when we can have 2 constituent in which these "Cypriots" can choose to reside, why do you want to force me to live in a GC state, should we have a choice to administer ourselves? BBF with political equality is a compromise for both sides your enosis and our taksim.

It appears GCs are not committed to BBF thats why it will not work, we understand that you do not want to share.

[Maximus]

I dont want to rule you VP, why would you look at it like this if you are a Cypriot, for Cypriots and for Cyprus? Even the "foreigners" dont look at it like this, they take part in the Cypriot political process as a normal resident/citizen and they get on just fine.

we have beaten this dead horse too many times before when it comes to the interpretation and the 'content' of this BBF. I am sure you may agree, these talks being conducted along BBF lines have not and probably will not yield results. It all seems far too difficult because neither side can make any substantive progress.

This "Cypriot" thing that you hide behind doesnt work with us, its just a smoke screen as you know the majority of "Cypriots" are GCs,
So you boil it down to Greeks vs Turks? Ottoman-Turks migrated towards the center of their collapsing empire in Anatolia. All the other nations which emerged did not have a Turkish problem because they didn't get stitched up like Cyprus did. The problem is then that you are a foreign body in the wrong womb. Are you a Greek that converted to Islam or an Ottoman-Turk? If its the latter, a Turkish state for the Turkish nation already exists as you sanctuary away from those blood thirsty, murdering and barbaric Greeks.

we stand no chance of making any progress when you consider that in a unitary state which is what you support the majority of people in power will be GCs,
whats wrong with electing the best man for the Job? are you telling me no TC is not capable to progress on merit because all the GC's are better as standard? Can a TC only make progress with forcing bureaucracy on the GC's or by having a false sense of entitlement over GC's?

why do you want to expose me to to this risk when we can have 2 constituent in which these "Cypriots" can choose to reside,
will you not be exposed anyway over time as people freely move around, live and work where they want?

why do you want to force me to live in a GC state, should we have a choice to administer ourselves?
This is a concession.

BBF with political equality is a compromise for both sides your enosis and our taksim.
A BBF with two equal states is a compromise due to the physical situation on the ground which was created by the Turkish invasion and the displacement of the natives. It is just a way to facilitate a diplomatic solution to this Turkish problem but for now, its just talk.

It appears GCs are not committed to BBF thats why it will not work, we understand that you do not want to share.
They are committed to the European Union, the implementation of the UN's resolutions, a Turkish withdrawal, the re-settlement of settlers and respect to everyone's property rights I believe. Everything else is just noise, running down the clock, trying to find a diplomatic solution to their problem because the status quo suits you fine and it is all you want. This is what you say and it has been demonstrated by your leaders. Remember your unilateral deceleration of independence which was condemned!

[repulsewarrior]

I dont want to rule you VP, why would you look at it like this if you are a Cypriot, for Cypriots and for Cyprus? Even the "foreigners" dont look at it like this, they take part in the Cypriot political process as a normal resident/citizen and they get on just fine.

we have beaten this dead horse too many times before when it comes to the interpretation and the 'content' of this BBF. I am sure you may agree, these talks being conducted along BBF lines have not and probably will not yield results. It all seems far too difficult because neither side can make any substantive progress.

This "Cypriot" thing that you hide behind doesnt work with us, its just a smoke screen as you know the majority of "Cypriots" are GCs, we stand no chance of making any progress when you consider that in a unitary state which is what you support the majority of people in power will be GCs, why do you want to expose me to to this risk when we can have 2 constituent in which these "Cypriots" can choose to reside, why do you want to force me to live in a GC state, should we have a choice to administer ourselves? BBF with political equality is a compromise for both sides your enosis and our taksim.

It appears GCs are not committed to BBF thats why it will not work, we understand that you do not want to share.

vp, i am not to sure who you are talking about when you say, "GC"; me, Maximus? similarly, the "us" you use. i see "us" as Cypriots, whether the vast majority is Greek or Eritrean. and, in support for our National Identities, within, as Constituents. clearly, you are denying what Bicommunal means, because it can mean anything, except dividing Cyprus in two.

...indeed, the fact remains your "Turkishness" boils down to your denial of its flaws, a neo-Ottoman if you will. it is no better than the "Greeks" obsessed with a similar Glory, as you modestly imply. but the "Cypriot" you choose to dismiss exists, our Liberty to be Greeks and Turks (and other Constituencies) depends on our Freedom, by demonstrating, as Individuals, who we wish to represent among a wider Family called Man.

you ignore the fact that it is the so called GC who submit themselves to this "Turkish" demand, to be based on Bicommunal, (and now,) Bizonal, Principals.

...unless Turkey, its deep state, can demonstrate in her own State, (having, Kurds, and Armenians, and others as well) how all Turks benefit from dividing them as in Cyprus, (at present,) it is a logic flawed. on an International scale Turkey has a lot to prove, that their superior nature does not come from their numbers alone. and that they as one People (when the bubble bursts), unlike the Kemalists who are turning to their past, demonstrate their willingness, like Ataturk, to cast off the plunder of people such as the Ottomans (or their neo-Ottoman remnants), for a State, where all Turks, rather than those "Turkish enough", can say, "how proud i am to be a Turk"; get popcorn, because this is what you get from hypocrisy that boils down to Erdogan's "zero friend" policy.

[Viewpoint]

Maxi

So you boil it down to Greeks vs Turks? Ottoman-Turks migrated towards the center of their collapsing empire in Anatolia. All the other nations which emerged did not have a Turkish problem because they didn't get stitched up like Cyprus did. The problem is then that you are a foreign body in the wrong womb. Are you a Greek that converted to Islam or an Ottoman-Turk? If its the latter, a Turkish state for the Turkish nation already exists as you sanctuary away from those blood thirsty, murdering and barbaric Greeks.

This Cypriotism thing has never been given the chance to develop, we had the chance in 1960 but you wanted to become Greek by giving the whole island to Greece, the triggered off 39 years of division, so how can expect us to just wake up one morning and say hey we are Cypriots like those in the south, whom we dont even know, we are in the right womb but we are twins in separate eggs if we try and use your analogy. You have to understand that we are not going anywhere, if anyone should have gone it was you people when you wanted enosis. The border is enough to keep both sides in check it has worked for 39 years you cannot deny this mixed we were killing each other, is that the situation you want your family to live in?

whats wrong with electing the best man for the Job? are you telling me no TC is not capable to progress on merit because all the GC's are better as standard? Can a TC only make progress with forcing bureaucracy on the GC's or by having a false sense of entitlement over GC's?

You still dont get it, we do not stand a chance even if we produced the best man for the job he would never get elected because GCs are anti TCs and would never allow there to be a TC leader at the head of a united Cyprus...why do you have problems understanding this,put yourself in our shoes with a 80% 20% imbalance we dont stand a chance the GCs would rather elect a GC monkey than a TC who graduated from Harvard. This is a very important issue I hope you take your time to think and understand it.

will you not be exposed anyway over time as people freely move around, live and work where they want?

Time is a great healer, if trust security equality and prosperity is achieved over time people will look at a unitary state more positively but this is not possible from day 1.

This is a concession.

From both sides.

A BBF with two equal states is a compromise due to the physical situation on the ground which was created by the Turkish invasion and the displacement of the natives. It is just a way to facilitate a diplomatic solution to this Turkish problem but for now, its just talk.

We all have to accept our contribution to the current situation and see the reality before us, BBF is the compromise form enosis and taksim, imo a step in the right direction.

They are committed to the European Union, the implementation of the UN's resolutions, a Turkish withdrawal, the re-settlement of settlers and respect to everyone's property rights I believe. Everything else is just noise, running down the clock, trying to find a diplomatic solution to their problem because the status quo suits you fine and it is all you want. This is what you say and it has been demonstrated by your leaders. Remember your unilateral deceleration of independence which was condemned!

We discussed this point earlier today, you have to understand you can have all the above over time but there has to be transition periods no one will jump into a well feet first, they need time to adjust, build confidence, reap the benefits and move closer....then you may have the Cypriot nation you talk about, are you willing to accept us as equals in a BBF solution?

[Viewpoint]

I dont want to rule you VP, why would you look at it like this if you are a Cypriot, for Cypriots and for Cyprus? Even the "foreigners" dont look at it like this, they take part in the Cypriot political process as a normal resident/citizen and they get on just fine.

we have beaten this dead horse too many times before when it comes to the interpretation and the 'content' of this BBF. I am sure you may agree, these talks being conducted along BBF lines have not and probably will not yield results. It all seems far too difficult because neither side can make any substantive progress.

This "Cypriot" thing that you hide behind doesnt work with us, its just a smoke screen as you know the majority of "Cypriots" are GCs, we stand no chance of making any progress when you consider that in a unitary state which is what you support the majority of people in power will be GCs, why do you want to expose me to to this risk when we can have 2 constituent in which these "Cypriots" can choose to reside, why do you want to force me to live in a GC state, should we have a choice to administer ourselves? BBF with political equality is a compromise for both sides your enosis and our taksim.

It appears GCs are not committed to BBF thats why it will not work, we understand that you do not want to share.

vp, i am not to sure who you are talking about when you say, "GC"; me, Maximus? similarly, the "us" you use. i see "us" as Cypriots, whether the vast majority is Greek or Eritrean. and, in support for our National Identities, within, as Constituents. clearly, you are denying what Bicommunal means, because it can mean anything, except dividing Cyprus in two.

repulse please move on you are still confused about us GCs and TCs, grow up.

...indeed, the fact remains your "Turkishness" boils down to your denial of its flaws, a neo-Ottoman if you will. it is no better than the "Greeks" obsessed with a similar Glory, as you modestly imply. but the "Cypriot" you choose to dismiss exists, our Liberty to be Greeks and Turks (and other Constituencies) depends on our Freedom, by demonstrating, as Individuals, who we wish to represent among a wider Family called Man.

OK respulse so Turks Turkishness is flawed whatever you say. are you happy now? what does it change?

you ignore the fact that it is the so called GC who submit themselves to this "Turkish" demand, to be based on Bicommunal, (and now,) Bizonal, Principals.

This is a mutual concession between enosis and taksim, its not one sided.

...unless Turkey, its deep state, can demonstrate in her own State, (having, Kurds, and Armenians, and others as well) how all Turks benefit from dividing them as in Cyprus, (at present,) it is a logic flawed. on an International scale Turkey has a lot to prove, that their superior nature does not come from their numbers alone. and that they as one People (when the bubble bursts), unlike the Kemalists who are turning to their past, demonstrate their willingness, like Ataturk, to cast off the plunder of people such as the Ottomans (or their neo-Ottoman remnants), for a State, where all Turks, rather than those "Turkish enough", can say, "how proud i am to be a Turk"; get popcorn, because this is what you get from hypocrisy that boils down to Erdogan's "zero friend" policy.

I dont wont to comment.

[Pyrpolizer]

Hmmm.... such a big post by VP to maxi and IU couldn't find anything to disagree.

How come, it can't be possible, there must be something, I will read it again.

[Viewpoint]

Hmmm.... such a big post by VP to maxi and IU couldn't find anything to disagree.

How come, it can't be possible, there must be something, I will read it again.

Dont place a strain on the few brain cells you have left you need them for your basic daily routine.

[Pyrpolizer]

Hmmm.... such a big post by VP to maxi and IU couldn't find anything to disagree.

How come, it can't be possible, there must be something, I will read it again.

Dont place a strain on the few brain cells you have left you need them for your basic daily routine.

Said the one who needs a transplant of brain