Cyprus-Forum.com

[bg_turk]

I will reverse the question to you: During the time that Bulgarians were changing your names etc, would you prefer if Turkey had used that as an excuse to invade Bulgaria and illegally occupy 25% of Bulgaria, ethnically cleansing the Bulgarians from that part of Bulgaria, and declare in this area a pseudo state that is not recognized by anyone?
Most of us would prefer to have as much as possible. But not all would prefer to gain on the pain and the human right violations of others.

You awlays answer my questions with questions. Would you accept to be minority member in any state but your own?

To be honest at the time I would have supported a Turkish intervention against the state which violated my most sacred fundamental rights to carry the name my mother gave me, to practice my religion and to speak my own language. Yet now that I know how things eventually turned up and that we avoided boodshed like in Bosnia, Cyprus and Kosovo, I am glad such an intervention did not happen. In fact turkey had every excuse to intervene at the time, the communist regime expelled more than half a million people from the country to go for a "great excursion" to Turkey. Turkey embraced and accepted all those refugees and many of my relatives live in Turkey now. The times were actually quite volatile as Turkish troops had massed on the Bulgarian border, but I would not support any form of intervention against Bulgaria at the moment, and neither do I belive Turkey has any such intentions, nor any reason to do that.

Just to summarise my opinion. No community would willingly accept to be a minority and be culturally dominated by another community, you just need to force it to become a minority and to try to gradually assimilate it. We did not have the power to resist Bulgaria and submitted to the will of the bulgaian majority to simply be turkish speaking bulgarian citizens. You simply need to force someone to be a minority, and so far you do not have the means to do that for TCs.

Again would you ever accept to be a minority member in a Turkish state? Can you ask from someone else something you will not be willing to do yourself?

If Turkey were to annex the TRNC, would you accept to return there and live as a minority in a turkish state?

[ELLAS H TEFRA!]

To annex the occupied areas??? My God (choose either, it doesnt matter) you are thick!
Perhaps your calendar is set at 1505 with the rest of the muslim world..in that case, Yes Turkey might annex those areas..

[Piratis]

Again would you ever accept to be a minority member in a Turkish state? Can you ask from someone else something you will not be willing to do yourself?

I believe I answered already when I said:

Most of us would prefer to have as much as possible. But not all would prefer to gain on the pain and the human right violations of others.

This means that even if I didn't like it, I would not support the violation of the human rights of others in order to illegally gain something more for myself.

In Cyprus we should have democracy and human rights for everybody. The racist discriminations and human rights violations should stop. On this healthy basis we can then see how we can accommodate both communities desires in ways that will not be against human and democratic rights of Cypriots. Things like having Turkish as an official language, separate education ministers etc are things that can be given to a minority without affecting the human and democratic rights of anybody.

If human rights violations and racist discrimination is used as the basis to form a country then this will only bring problems and not solve any.

P.s Is Turkish an official language in Bulgaria?

[Vassos1]

I think we Greek Cypriots are clouded with what the real issue concerning Cyprus today. Turkey is obviously filtering a large amount of Turks, disguising as Kurdish refuges, into our Republic of Cyprus. Also Turkey is very happy to sit back and wait for the population of Cyprus to one day swing towards the Turkish side. I think that we should cut loose from these Turks now while we’ve got the chance, before we are faced with another pointless power-sharing formula. If we continue to seek a “unification” policy, we will no doubt one day become the minority. Remember, under EU law, we will have no choice but to accept these people as “Refugees”. Let’s cut loose from them officially now before we suddenly wake up to a Majority Turkish population.

[Vassos1]

I think we Greek Cypriots are clouded with what the real issue concerning Cyprus today. Turkey is obviously filtering a large amount of Turks, disguising as Kurdish refuges, into our Republic of Cyprus. Also Turkey is very happy to sit back and wait for the population of Cyprus to one day swing towards the Turkish side. I think that we should cut loose from these Turks now while we’ve got the chance, before we are faced with another pointless power-sharing formula. If we continue to seek a “unification” policy, we will no doubt one day become the minority. Remember, under EU law, we will have no choice but to accept these people as “Refugees”. Let’s cut loose from them officially now before we suddenly wake up to a Majority Turkish population. I am not amused by some of our Greek Cypriots who clearly, and falsely, try to give the world the impression that we are all for unification. The Turks can keep their 30 odd percent, as long as they are unable to become a Citizen in our Republic of Cyprus. I have already started to see the results of "Denktash's" border opeining tactics, with Ayi Napa and Larnaca being flooded with Turkish youths acting against our people and republic. I am proud I said OXI in APril 2004, and will always say OXI if we are confronted with a plan that is less that Two-totally seperate Republic zones. I was 21 years old in Cyprus in 1974 when my so-called Turkish CYpriot friends had suddenly turned on me and starting acting my village from a high-top post with a rifle. I saw many of my friends killed at the time by, not Turks from Turkey, but from the Turkish CYpriots from my own village. The wounds are too deep to avoid, and I am now starting to feel that the Turks are visiting our Republic with no security for our people. It is as if they are allowed to visit by coming from a non-governmental area. At least if they were represented by a Turkish CYpriot Republic, we would be able to control the amount of Turkish visitors and monitor their actions. At present, no even our Grandchildren are safe.

[Piratis]

Vassos, you wrote the same thing several times already in many threads. Point taken. No need to write it 100 times.

[Vassos1]

Piratis,
Sorry mate, my PC has already crashed twice and I wasn’t sure if my postings went through.

Anyway, regarding the Subject of the “Scrapping of the Annan Plan”, personally, I think that external forces will make certain that we are tricked into this type of power-sharing deal. The Turkish Cypriot administration has clearly changed, and even to the point that they are willing to say “yes” to almost any plan that gives them some power-sharing option. Why? Because they have nothing to loose, and more importantly, they know that unification will “eventually” benefit them more than us. The way in which the EU is treating Turkey’s membership application, concerning the freedom of movement (including the acceptance of refuges) policy, will no doubt “SHIFT” the demographic trend on the island. Do you really think that Turkey’s huge businessman will allow Cyprus to become dominated by Greek industries if a unification deal is signed? Turkey, whether we like it or not, has changed, has become very business minded and has more multi-millionaires than Greece by a factor of 10. Also, let’s not forget Turkey’s future significance to the EU in terms of its relationship with any new Iraqi government, oil, China, the Turkic states and its angle with the OIC. In other words, the EU will eventually have no choice but to use Turkey’s geographical and strategic advantages in order to clinch huge investments and economic partnerships. In the process, guess who will be snubbed by the EU when Turkey reaches this important stage in its relationship with the EU: Yes, Cyprus.

Therefore, if we refuse to accept the reality that Cyprus is better off as Two Republic states, allowing us to secure our interests without any “TURKISH” interference in the future, we will one day be banging our heads on an old wall called the “Attila-line”. I beg any influential Greek official, Greek Cypriot politician or representative to re-read my writings carefully in the view of protecting our Hellenic heritage on the island. If you need a strong indication of Turkey’s new national policy and direction, just look at how well they have transformed their once dying economy in such a short period of time, their relationship with the ex-soviet –Turkic states, the 10 million plus Turks living in China (Wealthy investments) and Mr “dangerous” Talat. I am afraid that our President may actually harm our future if he continues to shadow our wish of keeping the Republic of Cyprus under Greek leadership.

Therefore, I would strongly suggest President Papadopoulos sit with Memet Ali Tallat in order to agree on a two republic formula, of that similar to the Czech and Slovak republic agreement. I would suggest we remain as the Republic of Cyprus with a re-written constitution eliminating Turkey’s rights in all aspects, in return for them to setup what ever type of republic in the north. However, I would only recommend that our President strongly press for the best territorial agreement possible; with perhaps the return of some land in order to reduce the land mass of what the Turkish Cypriots with eventually have. I am resolute that the Turkish Cypriots will jump to this chance today, but may not agree with this type of agreement if Turkey continues its path of re-alignment. We have the chance now to save our people from being forced to believe that we have to sign a new power-sharing plan, which I am sure President Papadopoulos doesn’t want.

And, on a final note, please remember that there are well over 1 million Turkish Cypriot descendents abroad (original Turkish Cypriot families and their new children from 1974) that, if they decided to relocate to Cyprus in the event of a future Annan Plan, would no doubt shift the balance in all sectors. Although this reality may be brushed off by some of our more liberal politicians, there is no getting away from the fact that the above is a very probable reality, even to the extent that Turkey and certain Turkish Cypriot associations have already started the ball rolling.

[cypezokyli]

what makes u so sure that turkey is after making us a minority in the island?
as i wrote u in another thread... why would then turkey support any kind of anan plan and 50-50 sharing power? since they will become majority in the end why dont they support the one-person one-vote ? and why would they want to limit themselves in just 28% of the island when their ultimate purpose is ti turkeyfy the whole island?

[ELLAS H TEFRA!]

Turkey---->EU.

Add the Turkish citizens that will be allowed to live in Cyprus under a European flag with the numbers of Turks residing allready in Cyprus!

[Vassos1]

Cypezokyli

Let’s look at it this way, if Turkey was so concerned with its Turkish Cypriot kind in 1974 instead of its political/ geographic advantage in Cyprus, it would have just loaded all of the Turkish Cypriot in Cyprus at the time in a number of shops and taken them to safe heaven Turkey. But No, Turkey decided to invade on the 20th July, and then invade again in mid august. If we haven’t figured out Turkey’s true policy, then we should have said yes to the last Annan Plan. Turkey’s support for a 50/50 power-sharing plan is its key in “legitimately” capturing the island in a “natural” progressive demographic plan. In other words, if we accept a two state resolution for Cyprus, we will be forcing Turkey out of gaining control over the entire island forever in some power-sharing formula, thus eliminating any demographic-shift strategy that they might have.

The Turks are split in three, one that wants recognition for their enclave and do not care about the size of the territory as long as it remains Turkish (the liberals who truly want to live as one island), one that wants FULL unification (the growing party), and one that wants unification for the benefit of exploiting Kemalism and one day shifting the Turkish influence to a majority. It is the PATRIOT Turks with whom we must now concentrate on in gaining approval to securing our policy of Hellenism. Unfortunately, although we failed to see the true Turkish policy in the past and could have gained a better deal with the old Denktash, perhaps his son can help us in restoring the Turkish Cypriot Patriot ness. All the indicators for this Turkish policy is becoming apparent, but it is our politicians who are still blinded by the belief that a unified Cyprus will remain majority Greek. I love my country and its people, but I am afraid that we might just make the mistake of the century if we do not secure our country’s position in the near future. The noises of “resolution”, “settlement”, “Annan Plan”, and “unification” strongly supported by the Turkish authorities are making me feel uneasy.

Just think what would have happened with Tallat as their leader if we would have said “Yes” to the Annan Plan