Cyprus-Forum.com

[bill cobbett]

Our dear Ocean, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, we have to take the figures made over by Laiki and BoC at the time of those tests as accurate.

... and let's consider this... who initiated those tests, who over-saw those tests and who published the results of those tests...??? There's only one answer to those questions and that is the EU's Banking Regulator, the European Banking Authority.

The other very important question is what impression would the results of those tests have left on Costas travelling on the Paphos Omnibus...??? Would Costas have been reassured by the EBA stress tests to leave his money in the Laiki and BoC...???

If Costas was wrongly reassured by the EBA's tests, if the EBA failed Costas in its duties, then Costas had better have a think about suing the EBA.

So what happened to change those figures...??? Well, the answer to that might lead Costas on to the role of senior figures at the ECB and of Eurozone Finance Ministers at a meeting that decided the extent of the hair-cut by investors in Greek Bonds tht took place a few weeks after the stress tests were published... a meeting that saw CY Banks lose out so disproportionately.

... and Costas might like to consider that where there is involvement in "meetings" by EU Officials and Ministers that has seen him suffer such huge losses, there may be conspiracy, culpability and responsibility.

Boys and girls... the bottom line is that a golden rule of suing anyone is to make sure they have the money to pay the compensation, so it's of limited value to CY for people in CY to sue other people in CY, to sue CY Banks and the CY Gov when these have no money. Best to look at ways to externalise the actions cos there is deffo blame to be laid at the door of the institutions of the EU on this one... and they've got access to a very large pot of money.

[Oceanside50]

If Pambos at the Bank of Cyprus gave the EBA inaccurate data then Costas has a claim against the Bank o fCyprus...the EBA doesnt have the jurisdiction to legally obtain data from banks but must rely on Pambos giving him whichever data he chooses, hence the results that Laiki and BOC were solvent 18 months ago..thats one of the things that needs to be upgraded within the Eu, giving the EBA the power to legally be able to obtain info on its own much like the powerful USA Federal Reserve...



"..The information is based on data supplied by each bank, via its respective national supervisor. Accuracy of this data is primarily the responsibility of the participating bank and national supervisor. This information has been provided to the EBA in accordance with Article 35 of EU Regulation 1093/2010. The EBA bears no responsibility for errors/discrepancies that may arise in the tables..."

[johnny1]

bill u seem to know a bit about suing and rights etc.,i need some advice...private or here no problem.

[bill cobbett]

bill u seem to know a bit about suing and rights etc.,i need some advice...private or here no problem.

Not really mate, just trying to explore ways to externalise the actions.

Now let's have a look at Ocean's objections to suing the bum off some EU organs.

... Oh, that was easy... later... after some supper.

[Rufus2013]

Ok, let's go with EU has "rights" business to do what it did to CY Banks last week ... and go on to perhaps agree that the EU also has responsibilities that go with these rights.

Let's start with the European Banking Authority...

The European Banking Authority is an organ of the EU and amongst its remit is...

..."The EBA acts as a hub and spoke network of EU and national bodies safeguarding public values such as the stability of the financial system, the transparency of markets and financial products and the protection of depositors and investors..."

In particular... any investor or depositor needs good info as to how safe the CY banks were judged.

So just what info were depositors given by the EBA as to the stability of CY Banks...??? Just how transparent were the markets and financial products to investors in CY Banks...??? ... and just how did the EBA act to protect depositors and investors...???

Well, some of the answers can be found in some stress tests that the European Banking Authority compelled almost all of the EU's banks to carry out some 18 months ago, and, in the opinion of commentators, both the Laiki and the BoC were judged solvent and were both judged to have passed those tests.



So questions arise from these stress tests: Were depositors misled...??? and vitally important, was the European Banking Authority negligent in its work and if it was, then is it liable...???

(For CF Bankers, who might give us more expert opinions, the stress tests for BoC are at ...http://eba.europa.eu/pdf/bank/CY007.pdf and the stress test for Laiki is at... http://eba.europa.eu/pdf/bank/CY006.pdf )

I agree Bill, this information is published on the banks website for investors and there was no sign of trouble from these....very misleading.

[Rufus2013]

bill u seem to know a bit about suing and rights etc.,i need some advice...private or here no problem.

Try contacting some Cyprus law firms, I have and everyone I have contacted is exploring whether this is all legal. It is just a case of waiting now until they know for certain.

[bill cobbett]

Ok, let's go with EU has "rights" business to do what it did to CY Banks last week ... and go on to perhaps agree that the EU also has responsibilities that go with these rights.

Let's start with the European Banking Authority...

The European Banking Authority is an organ of the EU and amongst its remit is...

..."The EBA acts as a hub and spoke network of EU and national bodies safeguarding public values such as the stability of the financial system, the transparency of markets and financial products and the protection of depositors and investors..."

In particular... any investor or depositor needs good info as to how safe the CY banks were judged.

So just what info were depositors given by the EBA as to the stability of CY Banks...??? Just how transparent were the markets and financial products to investors in CY Banks...??? ... and just how did the EBA act to protect depositors and investors...???

Well, some of the answers can be found in some stress tests that the European Banking Authority compelled almost all of the EU's banks to carry out some 18 months ago, and, in the opinion of commentators, both the Laiki and the BoC were judged solvent and were both judged to have passed those tests.



So questions arise from these stress tests: Were depositors misled...??? and vitally important, was the European Banking Authority negligent in its work and if it was, then is it liable...???

(For CF Bankers, who might give us more expert opinions, the stress tests for BoC are at ...http://eba.europa.eu/pdf/bank/CY007.pdf and the stress test for Laiki is at... http://eba.europa.eu/pdf/bank/CY006.pdf )

I agree Bill, this information is published on the banks website for investors and there was no sign of trouble from these....very misleading.

Yes, at the very least deffo worth lawyers exploring... after all the EBA is meant to be the Eurozone's Banking Regulator and even though it is a role it shares with national central banks in the common EU practise of power sharing between EU bodies and organs of member states the EBA published the data.

We should next look at the role of the Troika, in particular the massive destruction, the EU/IMF/ECB part in the loss in confidence brought about in the CY Banking sector by the first proposal (the blatantly illegal plan) that insured depositors be included in the scalping cos in that may lay claims for mega billions.

[Tim Drayton]

Ok, let's go with EU has "rights" business to do what it did to CY Banks last week ... and go on to perhaps agree that the EU also has responsibilities that go with these rights.

Let's start with the European Banking Authority...

The European Banking Authority is an organ of the EU and amongst its remit is...

..."The EBA acts as a hub and spoke network of EU and national bodies safeguarding public values such as the stability of the financial system, the transparency of markets and financial products and the protection of depositors and investors..."

In particular... any investor or depositor needs good info as to how safe the CY banks were judged.

So just what info were depositors given by the EBA as to the stability of CY Banks...??? Just how transparent were the markets and financial products to investors in CY Banks...??? ... and just how did the EBA act to protect depositors and investors...??
Well, some of the answers can be found in some stress tests that the European Banking Authority compelled almost all of the EU's banks to carry out some 18 month

ago, and, in the opinion of commentators, both the Laiki and the BoC were judged solvent and were both judged to have passed those tests.

So questions arise from these stress tests: Were depositors misled...??? and vitally important, was the European Banking Authority negligent in its work and if it was, then is it liable...???

(For CF Bankers, who might give us more expert opinions, the stress tests for BoC are at ...http://eba.europa.eu/pdf/bank/CY007.pdf and the stress test for Laiki is at... http://eba.europa.eu/pdf/bank/CY006.pdf )

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/06/ ... ZW20120628

"....At the heart of the debate lies the issue of how far will national governments, whose supervisors sit on the EBA, give up regulatory sovereignty to centralized EU decision making.

Momentum is building behind the European banking union plan and the bloc's leaders will try to move it along at their summit on Thursday and Friday, with talk of some building blocks being in place in 2013.

"That would be ambitious but it would be doable in the context we are in," said David Wright, secretary general of the global securities watchdog IOSCO and former deputy chief of the European Commission's financial services unit.

A union would need a single banking regulator. But the EBA, made up of supervisors and central bankers from all 27 EU states, has shown in its short life that it lacks the power to be effective in that role without changes.

In June last year Helaba, one of Germany's biggest lenders, was about to fail the EBA's new "stress test" designed to test the capital strengths of individual banks across the European Union.

German regulator Bafin came out fighting, and accused the EBA of overstepping the mark and cobbling together new rules on capital. The Bundesbank weighed in too, saying the stress test was just a "show" for investors and Bafin allowed Helaba to pull out of the test two days before results were published...."

What this implies is that the EBA through the European Union doesnt have the authority to overstep a sovereign country's banking system and effectively give an accurate stress test to any bank in the EU....The EBA doesnt even have the authority to legally gain accurate information from a bank, it goes by what the individual banks, own statistics, which could be inaccurate which probably was the case in Laiki and Bank of Cyprus...

According to the following Wall Street Journal article:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 23182.html

the reason Laiki and Bank of Cyprus passed the 2010 and 2011 stress tests with flying colours is that the possibility of sovereign debt writedown was not included in the model. It was only after the Greek haircut that these banks were clobbered.

[bill cobbett]

Good article TD... from which we learn that both Laiki and BoC passed the EBA stress tests and with flying colours, not just once but in two consecutive years and as we know got screwed by the write-down on their share of the Greek debt (as well as by some poor investment decisions on the part of the banks).

... which brings the Greek debt negotiations and the role of the ECB in these in to play with the questions... did the ECB treat CY fairly as per its remit to treat the small and the large Eurozone member-states equally fairly and did the ECB act in accordance with its charter to remain independent of political influences from member-states or from any other body...???

Then some more questions, some raised by TD's article...

Why did Laiki sell off its Greek operations for a fraction of their value...???

Why have all depositors not been treated equally, that's to say why have private investors seen huge losses whereas public bodies, the municipalities, the schools and others been exempted...???

Why have investors from Greece in Laiki and BoC also been exempted from the write-downs...???

Lots of questions which might be answered if one of the actions that are on-going in the CY courts puts the CY Courts in the situation where they have to refer to the ECJ for their expert opinion on the roles of EU bodies in this mess.

[Paphitis]

Personally, I hope that Laiki and BoC have enough money to screw the ECB for the Billions they lost from the enforced Greek Bonds haircut!