Cyprus-Forum.com

[Mustiejodu]

How many times should we hear the very same arguments that lead to no where? One side saying it was the Kypreoi's fault for wanting Enosis the other side saying it was the Kibrislis' fault for wanting taksim and inviting Turkey here. These are controversial issues that lead to no where. Everything that happened here just followed the natural route of cause and effect.

What we all need to do is just provide that first push to the natural rule of cause and effect so that this time it sets things right for EVERYONE concerned. How will we do that if we blame each other on a daily basis, if we are totally unable to understand why our compatriot is crying, and if we constantly try to gain on his loss?

The blame game continues because both sides fail to recognise the fears of the other and because the minority, perversely in my view, insist on being regarded as an equal community. Turkey screwed that status out of the colonial power in Zurich in order to gain power by proxy on the island for its own neo-Ottoman ambitions.

Today both sides perceive the other as having the upper hand, the Greek Cypriot government in terms of legality and international recognition and the Turkish Cypriots with the “facts on the ground” it has forcibly created. There will never be real peace in Cyprus until the Turkish Cypriots accept a solution that reflects their numbers and so their "share" of the island in terms of governance and territory. As we all know Turkey has emboldened them to demand more and changed the demographics to reinforce its claim.

The impression I get from reading the views of Turkish Cypriot “heroes” is that the Greek Cypriots must be punished permanently for “victimising” the minority pre 1974 – hardly an attitude that will lead to a just settlement!

Things are more or less the way you said.

That's because we are humans. Most of our actions and decissions are actually illogical. The few that are not have to abide to sentiment, or else they are rejected and fall back to illogical again.

If we are to look from the Kypreoi's viewpoint, of the situation in the occupied most of us would think those people are paranoid.Yet it is in line with their sentiments. They will never move into another situation that will not be in line with their sentiments.

If we look from the Kibrislis' viewpoint of the situation in our side again they would think we are paranoid because we don't want to share anything with them, we want to continue depriving them of what they are missing, we want to dominate them etc etc.The truth is we will never move into another situation that will not be in line with our sentiments either.

As long as ANY of the two sides fails to understand why the other side is RIGHT in their sentiment, we will never solve the cyprob.

The other day I attended a speech by some guy who wrote a book on the evolution of the 2 communities in Cyprus. What really striked me was his remark that the Kypreoi never understood and actually totally disregarded the FACT that the Kibrisli community in Cyprus never ever accepted that they were a minority. And it's not something that happened after 1974, it's something that pre-existed long long ago.
I am not going to judge if this is right or wrong, logical or illogical.

All i want to say is just repeat that ""As long as ANY of the two sides fails to understand why the other side is RIGHT in their sentiments, we will never solve the cyprob." Probably that's an utopia, but probably it is an utopia trying to solve the cyprob with peaceful means anyhow.

YOU ARE THE ONLY PERSON THAT HAS EVER MADE SENSE ON THIS FORUM , ALL WE NEED IS PEOPLE lIKE YOU AND THE PROBLEM CAN BE SOLVED IF PEOPLE TRUELY WANT TO. BUT SADLY YOU ARE FAR AND FEW BUT DONT GIVE UP BECAUSE NO ONE CAN ACTUALLY ARGUE AGAINST YOUR COMMENTS.

[Mustiejodu]

20% is too much, they never owned this much land. More like 18% and that's being generous.

Actually we had the whole island and your lucky you still are in a position to be a GC rather than a ottoman subject which for a fact from your great grand father and great grand mother and beyond for 5 generations would have been under ottoman rule. Keep this in mind when you do percentages. The problem is you don't realise this factor or understand why TC s want self determination. You need to realise that human nature just like animals are territorial and just because TCs are fewer people don't mean they want to give up the land. The mentality is that they already gave up the whole of the south or in fact the whole island to the british. Once you look at it in this perspective you will then see why GCS and TC s can't settle the cyprus problem. What pyro said is correct, if we all can think like him then we can move forward

[repulsewarrior]

...sadly Mustiejodu, with your superior than thou attitude, you are no better than a "Greek". if you want to judge, i suggest that the enmity continues forever. if you want "it" to stop, you must consider what you can change within yourself, and never mind the rest; lead by example.

say, "i love Cyprus, first."

...say "i may be Turkish but i am no "Turk"", say, "Freedom for Cyprus, Freedom as Cypriots; Liberty too", say, "i am a Citizen of the World, i can do better."

cheers!

[Pyrpolizer]

20% is too much, they never owned this much land. More like 18% and that's being generous.

Actually we had the whole island and your lucky you still are in a position to be a GC rather than a ottoman subject which for a fact from your great grand father and great grand mother and beyond for 5 generations would have been under ottoman rule. Keep this in mind when you do percentages. The problem is you don't realise this factor or understand why TC s want self determination. You need to realise that human nature just like animals are territorial and just because TCs are fewer people don't mean they want to give up the land. The mentality is that they already gave up the whole of the south or in fact the whole island to the british. Once you look at it in this perspective you will then see why GCS and TC s can't settle the cyprus problem. What pyro said is correct, if we all can think like him then we can move forward

Please don't praise me for just mentioning FACTS. If you look closer to what I wrote you will notice that I refrained from judging the ways each community feels and acts.Somehow I proposed that each one of us takes those things for granted.
The question is do you (personally) take the positions/sentiments of the Kypreoi for granted, does B25 take the positions/sentiments of the Kibrislis for granted?
Isn't it obvious that none of you does so, and you quarrel all the time that each one of you is more correct than the other?

It took our leaders almost 50years to come to terms with this simple truth, and yet all we see during the negotiations is that either one of them or both of them are still kicking like donkeys against the only possible solution that is a true Federation....

[Viewpoint]

Pyro over the years your posts have matured and you make a lot of sense, do you think they will actually find a solution this time around? and do the majority of GCs know what BBF is and sharing power?

[Get Real!]

What really striked me was his remark that the Kypreoi never understood and actually totally disregarded the FACT that the Kibrisli community in Cyprus never ever accepted that they were a minority.

They have the right to fantasize anything they want but they shouldn’t expect us to go along with their delusions… especially when their fantasies are at our expense!

The best I can offer them is a recount.

[Pyrpolizer]

Pyro over the years your posts have matured and you make a lot of sense, do you think they will actually find a solution this time around? and do the majority of GCs know what BBF is and sharing power? and do the majority of TCs know what BBF is and sharing power?

I added some extra quote to your question to give a more complete answer.
In short the answers are:
a)Yes (but the agreement will be with Turkey not the Tcs) b)Partially and c)partially.

[Pyrpolizer]

What really striked me was his remark that the Kypreoi never understood and actually totally disregarded the FACT that the Kibrisli community in Cyprus never ever accepted that they were a minority.

They have the right to fantasize anything they want but they shouldn’t expect us to go along with their delusions… especially when their fantasies are at our expense!

The best I can offer them is a recount.

How exactly are they at "our" expense and it is not going to be at "their" expense as well?
Be reasonable here.Perhaps you can't imagine what it would mean economically for the smaller part of the Federation to raise taxes to pay all those who at Fed level will be in equal numbers....

[Maximus]

What really striked me was his remark that the Kypreoi never understood and actually totally disregarded the FACT that the Kibrisli community in Cyprus never ever accepted that they were a minority.

They have the right to fantasize anything they want but they shouldn’t expect us to go along with their delusions… especially when their fantasies are at our expense!

The best I can offer them is a recount.

How exactly are they at "our" expense and it is not going to be at "their" expense as well?
Be reasonable here.Perhaps you can't imagine what it would mean economically for the smaller part of the Federation to raise taxes to pay all those who at Fed level will be in equal numbers....

The republic of Cyprus is going to clean everything up at the republic of Cyprus's expense anyway (minus peace dividend). I don't think they want to be a part of that and they are not planning on incurring expenses to solve the cyprob. I cant see Turkey agreeing to pay Cyprus compensation either.

I am a big fan of keeping things simple. Turkey has to withdraw, while taking her settlers back at her own expense. Cyprus should be a democratic unitary state in the EU, taking care of its citizens, their right to property, freedoms etc, at their own expense.

For the TC's, its a choice out of Turkey or Cyprus and helping to restore and fix it (confidence building measure) as well as respect the rights of the majority. They have to be democratic and civil.

This is reasonable.

[Viewpoint]

What really striked me was his remark that the Kypreoi never understood and actually totally disregarded the FACT that the Kibrisli community in Cyprus never ever accepted that they were a minority.

They have the right to fantasize anything they want but they shouldn’t expect us to go along with their delusions… especially when their fantasies are at our expense!

The best I can offer them is a recount.

How exactly are they at "our" expense and it is not going to be at "their" expense as well?
Be reasonable here.Perhaps you can't imagine what it would mean economically for the smaller part of the Federation to raise taxes to pay all those who at Fed level will be in equal numbers....

The republic of Cyprus is going to clean everything up at the republic of Cyprus's expense anyway (minus peace dividend). I don't think they want to be a part of that and they are not planning on incurring expenses to solve the cyprob. I cant see Turkey agreeing to pay Cyprus compensation either.

I am a big fan of keeping things simple. Turkey has to withdraw, while taking her settlers back at her own expense. Cyprus should be a democratic unitary state in the EU, taking care of its citizens, their right to property, freedoms etc, at their own expense.

For the TC's, its a choice out of Turkey or Cyprus and helping to restore and fix it (confidence building measure) as well as respect the rights of the majority. They have to be democratic and civil.

This is reasonable.

So what you offer is minority rights in a GC run unitary state. Do you really think TCs will buy this? they could have this tomorrow by moving South but they dont...you have to realize that you cannot force anyone to accept your solution, while everyone including your leaders have accepted and are negotiating BBF you harp on about the GC utopian dream of a GC state with TCs as just some minority. You may want to stay stuck in your mindset but everyone else has moved on and understood that we are partners not majority minority as you demand....dont you thinks it time you to grasped whats going on around right now in 2014?