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[Get Real!]

OK, thanks, but that sounds really laborious. I would have to re-connect them to their monitors and keyboards etc.

Really?

How about if I just unscrewed the backs and pulled out some chippy-wiry things. Would that be sufficient to render them info-safe but re-usable for someone else?

So you think removing parts is easier eh?

(If there is one easily recognisable chippy-thing which is the main memory that I can remove to cause minimum harm for re-use, that would be a great option.)

You can remove the hard disk if you want:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lVnFlFrqhE

…but what a waste of a perfectly good working system because the user couldn’t be bothered deleting their stuff!

It’s like removing the engine from a car because you couldn’t be bothered to empty the glove box!

[Sotos]

It’s like removing the engine from a car because you couldn’t be bothered to empty the glove box!

Replacing an engine of a car is a very laborious job which not everyone can do. Replacing a hard drive is easy You suggested that she deleted certain folders in "My Documents"... but it is entirely possible that she stores her data elsewhere. Personally I almost never use "My Documents" (I guess I could modify the default settings to make it work for me but I never bothered). Also, maybe she has restore points (if they exist in XP, can't remember) or something similar... so somebody could restore everything to a previous state. I think you should either wipe everything from the whole hard drive using specialized programs for this purpose, or just remove the hard drive... and the second option is much faster. Maybe I am a bit too paranoid with such things ... I had some old non functioning hard drives which I decided to throw away a year ago... but first I opened them up with a screwdriver and hammered the plates

[Get Real!]

It’s like removing the engine from a car because you couldn’t be bothered to empty the glove box!

Replacing an engine of a car is a very laborious job which not everyone can do. Replacing a hard drive is easy You suggested that she deleted certain folders in "My Documents"... but it is entirely possible that she stores her data elsewhere. Personally I almost never use "My Documents" (I guess I could modify the default settings to make it work for me but I never bothered). Also, maybe she has restore points (if they exist in XP, can't remember) or something similar... so somebody could restore everything to a previous state. I think you should either wipe everything from the whole hard drive using specialized programs for this purpose, or just remove the hard drive... and the second option is much faster. Maybe I am a bit too paranoid with such things ... I had some old non functioning hard drives which I decided to throw away a year ago... but first I opened them up with a screwdriver and hammered the plates

The only reason you dared to venture out of “my documents” is because you work in the IT industry but most people (Oracle included) aren’t that daring and would stick to Windows default settings.

As for system restore points, they don’t restore user data only system settings, drivers, etc. System restore has no effect on "my documents" period.

If she follows my simple advice 99.99% of the world’s population cannot undo the changes thanks to the Defrag that will completely scramble HD contents making undelete a waste of time.

[Sotos]

I always turn off system restore right after I install the OS. I see win 7 also has "backup and restore"... which again I never used but I assume that this one would backup user data also. But apart from "my documents" there are other places that data could be automatically stored... like in AppData, where various programs like email clients store their profiles... including all email & passwords, and then there are things like browser cookies ... and who knows what programs with personal data each person might be using. And if somebody is going to get a used computer then the first thing he should do is to format and re-install the OS to get the max performance possible... so there is no reason why you shouldn't wipe the whole drive clean... or if thats too difficult then just remove the hard drive ... the person that gets your computer can buy another one for €40.

[Get Real!]

I always turn off system restore right after I install the OS.

Good for you... it’s an additional useless service running in the background wasting resources.

I see win 7 also has "backup and restore"... which again I never used but I assume that this one would backup user data also.

With backup you'll have to specify an external place to write the backup file. It's a very slow process depending of course on how many directories you specify to backup, probably because it also compresses stuff. I hate it but I would set it up for customers to kick-start at 3 or 4am on the weekend so it doesn't bother them. I'll use it if they ask for backup and they don't want to spend a dime other than my time to set it up. I may also write a batch file to send stuff to a USB stick if not too much data.

But apart from "my documents" there are other places that data could be automatically stored... like in AppData, where various programs like email clients store their profiles... including all email & passwords, and then there are things like browser cookies ... and who knows what programs with personal data each person might be using. And if somebody is going to get a used computer then the first thing he should do is to format and re-install the OS to get the max performance possible... so there is no reason why you shouldn't wipe the whole drive clean... or if thats too difficult then just remove the hard drive ... the person that gets your computer can buy another one for €40.

I dind't want to confuse Oracle too much with "Application Data" which appears in two places at least on XP.

Oracle, add this to your list of things to delete:

C:\Documents and Settings\YOUR_USER_NAME\Application Data\Microsoft\Outlook\OUTLOOK.PST

Thanks Sotos!

[supporttheunderdog]

Physically trashing the disk is one way to destroy data but that destroys the disk and may well render the machine not cost effective to restore. The other way is file scrubbing. File scrubbing is not new. I think Peter Norton wrote one of the earliest in the 80's. there are lots of free utilities that do the job. It should not long to set up a keyboard mouse and monitor then run up the PC and run one of the utilities and hey presto, data gone but with a useable machine.

[Get Real!]

Physically trashing the disk is one way to destroy data but that destroys the disk and may well render the machine not cost effective to restore. The other way is file scrubbing. File scrubbing is not new. I think Peter Norton wrote one of the earliest in the 80's.

When Peter Norton released the Norton Commander I was competing in Australia with my superior FileDrive.

The file scrubbing you talk about is filling up the free disk area with a huge binary file full of ascii character #0 (not the zero number but the null character).

He didn't invent jackshit... it was basic common sense that we were all doing.

He was the first though to "invent " temporarily modifying certain "useless" ascii characters to create rounded corners for dialog boxes in text mode and we were all impressed and like... "how the fuck did he do that?"

[Paphitis]

On the idea of security: we have at least 3 computers we are keeping stored which I would like to donate or recycle but I know even deleting some of our old documents (tax info, personal stuff etc) is still retrievable by experts.

Assuming you're a normal user who was just saving their stuff in the usual (default) places in Windows XP then:

If you can navigate to these folders and delete all files you find there, you should be alright...

C:\Documents and Settings\YOUR_USER_NAME\My Documents

C:\Documents and Settings\YOUR_USER_NAME\My Documents\My Music

C:\Documents and Settings\YOUR_USER_NAME\My Documents\My Pictures

C:\Documents and Settings\YOUR_USER_NAME\My Documents\My Videos

C:\Documents and Settings\YOUR_USER_NAME\My Documents\Downloads

C:\Documents and Settings\YOUR_USER_NAME\Favorites

Afterwards do a Defrag:

start > programs > accessories > system tools > disk defragmenter

And you're done.

So what do people suggest is the greenest thing we can do with the PCs?

Give them to a local techie.

OK, thanks, but that sounds really laborious. I would have to re-connect them to their monitors and keyboards etc. How about if I just unscrewed the backs and pulled out some chippy-wiry things. Would that be sufficient to render them info-safe but re-usable for someone else?

(If there is one easily recognisable chippy-thing which is the main memory that I can remove to cause minimum harm for re-use, that would be a great option.)

You obviously worry too much!

Look, I don't think anyone would be interested in your nude photos or home made porn video collection!

But just to be safe, just start a bonfire and toss the 3 computers in it.

Hope that helps.

[supporttheunderdog]

Physically trashing the disk is one way to destroy data but that destroys the disk and may well render the machine not cost effective to restore. The other way is file scrubbing. File scrubbing is not new. I think Peter Norton wrote one of the earliest in the 80's.

When Peter Norton released the Norton Commander I was competing in Australia with my superior FileDrive.

The file scrubbing you talk about is filling up the free disk area with a huge binary file full of ascii character #0 (not the zero number but the null character).

He didn't invent jackshit... it was basic common sense that we were all doing.

He was the first though to "invent " temporarily modifying certain "useless" ascii characters to create rounded corners for dialog boxes in text mode and we were all impressed and like... "how the fuck did he do that?"

I was thinking of Norton Utilities with Norton Disk Doctor, from 1988 rather than Norton Commander. Yes, overwriting the space freed up when a file is deleted was what I was thinking about, bearing in mind at least in the old days, deletion did not actually delete anything but the addressing information for the data, meaning files could be undeleted with a suitable program of which NDD was an early example. If I recall, Commander was a user interface for DOS competing eg with Gem, and other early GUIs.

[Get Real!]

Physically trashing the disk is one way to destroy data but that destroys the disk and may well render the machine not cost effective to restore. The other way is file scrubbing. File scrubbing is not new. I think Peter Norton wrote one of the earliest in the 80's.

When Peter Norton released the Norton Commander I was competing in Australia with my superior FileDrive.

The file scrubbing you talk about is filling up the free disk area with a huge binary file full of ascii character #0 (not the zero number but the null character).

He didn't invent jackshit... it was basic common sense that we were all doing.

He was the first though to "invent " temporarily modifying certain "useless" ascii characters to create rounded corners for dialog boxes in text mode and we were all impressed and like... "how the fuck did he do that?"

I was thinking of Norton Utilities with Norton Disk Doctor, from 1988 rather than Norton Commander. Yes, overwriting the space freed up when a file is deleted was what I was thinking about, bearing in mind at least in the old days, deletion did not actually delete anything but the addressing information for the data, meaning files could be undeleted with a suitable program of which NDD was an early example. If I recall, Commander was a user interface for DOS competing eg with Gem, and other early GUIs.

Norton’s Commander had the lion’s share of the global market while in a corner of Australia a very determined and hard working young man was struggling to compete with a microscopic budget but a much better product!

But I was about to learn that in global competition market outreach is what determines the success of a product and not necessarily how good the product may be!

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Here's the feature you're talking about:

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