Cyprus-Forum.com

[repulsewarrior]

Let me see now, how can I put this......

Cut off from family and culture, because of an invasion
Isolated in another land, because of invasion
Lost all sense of identity, because of invasion
Not knowing who you are, because of an invasion
Your properties squatted on by an army, because of an invasion
Without your permission a great big fat road built through your properties, because of an invasion


What would life have been like without an invasion?

You'd have had a place to call home, not an outcast within your own kind, no need to fight in a court to prove who you are and what is rightfully yours....

It's not ignorance, hatred or being self righteous. It is your right to your home, where countless generations have called home before you. Where you belong.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvyEKhE ... e=youtu.be

[youtube]PvyEKhEQKaY&[/youtube]

but all this happened before the invasion too with one difference. most of the victims were tc. what goes around come around my dear. if you are going to judge, you have to comprehend. just jumping in mid way does not bode well.

there is no invasion only intervention which makarios had asked for of the guarantors in the un speech in 1974.

Yeah, intervention. That's why the poor Turkish Cypriot man on the video was crying. He doesn't look so happy that Turkey ' saved ' him!
Turkey is the problem. Not the likes of normal every day people. I'm sure in village life half of Cyprus weren't aware of a lot of things going on. After all, it's easy to say in this age of information and technology. Come now, look at the roads in the 70s in Cyprus for example ....It wasn't an hour from one city to the next like now. It had snail mail, ffs.


Hello VP..... Folks Have been worried as to where you have been. A whole thread dedicated to 'where is VP, and now you pop up.

Indeed Ms. H., that Turkish Cypriot represents 'the other half', as i like to think of most Cypriots, because it is not a reasonable way of dividing us, "Turkish"/"not Turkish" (read: "Greek"), more accurately there are those of us who love Cyprus, and those who will put their "Greekness" or "Turkishness", first, those who believe in Universal Principals, and those who will venture no further than what a mythic dogma says.

Makarios was no "Greek", by the time 10 years later rolled around, Lordo. And Turkey, to say the least, failed all of us (and by us i mean Humanity).

...ge yio, yiasou, vp.

[Pyrpolizer]

The majority of GCs did not know of the atrocities against the TCs in the period between1963-67. Most GCs had not idea what was going on in the enclaves. The majority thought the TCs were going through their own rebellion aiming at taksim through their self isolation, paving the way for Turkey to invade.

The majority of TCs knew very well what happened to the GCs in 1974.
The majority of TCs are happy with it or invent various excuses to justify it. Their leadership misses no chance to justify it, they have even built the museum of barbarity which every TC has to visit at least once to get himself trained to the idea that everything is fine.How many TCs would ever miss a chance repeating like parrots the incidents at Sandalari, Tochni, and Kofinou? And how many would ever think that the GCs might have gone through 100 times more?

1)Do you really expect people to believe GCs did not know what was going on? , this is total rubbish and you will never get TCs to accept this, it didnt suit them to know, they buried their heads in the sand while TCs were suffering, with only way out was to fight back, what did you expect us to do, bow down to the GCs admins ulitmate goal which was and still is to get rid of the island of its TC population using all means availaible.

Please accept that the spark was not 1974, that was the result of GC discriminative and persecutive actions.

2)All TCs accept 100% that GCs suffered in 1974 and we will always be sorry that innocent people got hurt and killed but what you have to accept is that GCs played with fire and got burnt real bad.

The GCs had the opportunity to build a Cypriot nation by getting the TCs on board in 1960 but they chose to pursue exclusive politics and TC persecution, 3) the GCs have never seen the TCs as equals only as an annoying minority which needs to be squashed, the day you come to your senses and accept that we have to work together as equal partners to build a future together is the day you will find a solution and unite this island.

Wow! That's the first time I 've seen you responding with a non one liner VP.
I guess that has to do with your long absence from the forum. Believe it or not we all got worried about you... see the topic in General Chat.
I am really glad to see you again.

Now back to your post:

1) Yes I do expect the TCs to accept that the majority of GCs did not know. Knowing and burying their heads in the sand is total nonsense.In fact it's part of your own collective brainwashing. The media at those times were simply not existent. Unless you call the 3-4 hours of RIK TV per day a "media".

2)That's exactly what I said. That all the TCs knew and still know. Now read carefully the second part of what you said. Again it agrees totally with what I said. Deep inside the TCs COLLECTIVELY and you personally invent excuses to justify it. We 've heard it a million times "it's their fault, they played with the fire" They they... Who are "they "? The vast majority of refugees who knew nothing and all they cared was for making a living to support their family?

3)I agree completely. That's what happens everywhere in the world.

[Pyrpolizer]

The majority of GCs did not know of the atrocities against the TCs in the period between1963-67. Most GCs had not idea what was going on in the enclaves. The majority thought the TCs were going through their own rebellion aiming at taksim through their self isolation, paving the way for Turkey to invade.

The majority of TCs knew very well what happened to the GCs in 1974.
The majority of TCs are happy with it or invent various excuses to justify it. Their leadership misses no chance to justify it, they have even built the museum of barbarity which every TC has to visit at least once to get himself trained to the idea that everything is fine.How many TCs would ever miss a chance repeating like parrots the incidents at Sandalari, Tochni, and Kofinou? And how many would ever think that the GCs might have gone through 100 times more?

come on pyro baby we are talking about mixed villages where the gcs did the looting of homes and burning down so they would not return. i grant you the media kept the gcs blind to the facts but everybody knew what went on in their own village.

its time to change the record gavole those 78s are very boring.

I am not so sure you are right in saying this looting and burning of houses happened in "mixed villages". To my knowledge most of those occurred when the TCs abandoned their non mixed villages. I am not denying the fact that it happened. There are thieves among every group of people. In fact given the climate of those times I wouldn't exclude the possibility that it was actually a method for the thieves to steal. Scare the TCs to abandon their properties so they would go steal.

This is quite different from saying that the majority of GCs knew all about it. All they knew is that you were concentrating in enclaves to either form a state within a state or pave the way for turkey to invade.

[Oceanside50]

The reason why the cyprus problem will never be solved is because there are far more of the above in Cyprus than pragmatic people. I used to believe that we can live together as equal peacefully without prejudice and really believed that we can solve the Cyprus problem but now I am completely convinced that being apart is the peacfull solution and to be honest I think the borders should be closed off as we are allowing the enemy to roam around in the north . Our security is at risk allowing GCS in the north . If they want to come to the north then they should fly to Turkey first and go through strict security checks . This should then completely putt them off from coming as their hatred will be exposed . At present we are letting in all sorts like ex eoka . I know you all will think I hate GC s . That is far from the truth . I just don't want the majority of GCS who hate TC s and turks to be allowed to roam freely in the north and who can tell who hates who ? For all you know I could hate greeks but just say I don't . It's easy to say it than doing it . How many of you have smiled into TCs face and say your ok but it's the Turks from Turkey . This is so racist way of thinking and is clearly not a genuine person that likes you but pretends to give you a false sense of security . Here is another typical GC s quote my son has TC friends they are good people . Why would you need to emphasise on they are good people. I have TC friends they are not a problem . Up untill now and in the future I would never say I have a GC friend and they are not a problem . Who do you all think your kidding . We know most of you just tolerate us and pretend that your ok with us but the truth is obvious in your actions .

You are seeing things from a very different perspective. The hate you talk about doesn't exist to the extent you talk about. What does exist is the bitterness of seeing your quotes such as " I just don't want the majority tc's who hate tc's and Turks to be allowed to roam freely in the north...." If you know anything about cyprus you would know and awknowledge that the occupied areas are not Turkish and the Gcs have and will continue to have rights and property rights in the occupied areas. Talking about two faced attitudes, you know that land in the occupied areas belongs to gcs but you willingly exploit it and continually elect leaders that allow it...

[Oceanside50]

The majority of GCs did not know of the atrocities against the TCs in the period between1963-67. Most GCs had not idea what was going on in the enclaves. The majority thought the TCs were going through their own rebellion aiming at taksim through their self isolation, paving the way for Turkey to invade.

The majority of TCs knew very well what happened to the GCs in 1974.
The majority of TCs are happy with it or invent various excuses to justify it. Their leadership misses no chance to justify it, they have even built the museum of barbarity which every TC has to visit at least once to get himself trained to the idea that everything is fine.How many TCs would ever miss a chance repeating like parrots the incidents at Sandalari, Tochni, and Kofinou? And how many would ever think that the GCs might have gone through 100 times more?

come on pyro baby we are talking about mixed villages where the gcs did the looting of homes and burning down so they would not return. i grant you the media kept the gcs blind to the facts but everybody knew what went on in their own village.

its time to change the record gavole those 78s are very boring.

I think vp makes good points. Vp fails to understand that people were becoming wise to the fact that a turkish intervention was possible. One of the main conflicts among gc's was the fate of the Tc minority, and of the fact that makarios was seen by many Gc as the protector of the tc.

[Viewpoint]

The majority of GCs did not know of the atrocities against the TCs in the period between1963-67. Most GCs had not idea what was going on in the enclaves. The majority thought the TCs were going through their own rebellion aiming at taksim through their self isolation, paving the way for Turkey to invade.

The majority of TCs knew very well what happened to the GCs in 1974.
The majority of TCs are happy with it or invent various excuses to justify it. Their leadership misses no chance to justify it, they have even built the museum of barbarity which every TC has to visit at least once to get himself trained to the idea that everything is fine.How many TCs would ever miss a chance repeating like parrots the incidents at Sandalari, Tochni, and Kofinou? And how many would ever think that the GCs might have gone through 100 times more?

1)Do you really expect people to believe GCs did not know what was going on? , this is total rubbish and you will never get TCs to accept this, it didnt suit them to know, they buried their heads in the sand while TCs were suffering, with only way out was to fight back, what did you expect us to do, bow down to the GCs admins ulitmate goal which was and still is to get rid of the island of its TC population using all means availaible.

Please accept that the spark was not 1974, that was the result of GC discriminative and persecutive actions.

2)All TCs accept 100% that GCs suffered in 1974 and we will always be sorry that innocent people got hurt and killed but what you have to accept is that GCs played with fire and got burnt real bad.

The GCs had the opportunity to build a Cypriot nation by getting the TCs on board in 1960 but they chose to pursue exclusive politics and TC persecution, 3) the GCs have never seen the TCs as equals only as an annoying minority which needs to be squashed, the day you come to your senses and accept that we have to work together as equal partners to build a future together is the day you will find a solution and unite this island.

Wow! That's the first time I 've seen you responding with a non one liner VP.
I guess that has to do with your long absence from the forum. Believe it or not we all got worried about you... see the topic in General Chat.
I am really glad to see you again.

Now back to your post:

1) Yes I do expect the TCs to accept that the majority of GCs did not know. Knowing and burying their heads in the sand is total nonsense.In fact it's part of your own collective brainwashing. The media at those times were simply not existent. Unless you call the 3-4 hours of RIK TV per day a "media".

2)That's exactly what I said. That all the TCs knew and still know. Now read carefully the second part of what you said. Again it agrees totally with what I said. Deep inside the TCs COLLECTIVELY and you personally invent excuses to justify it. We 've heard it a million times "it's their fault, they played with the fire" They they... Who are "they "? The vast majority of refugees who knew nothing and all they cared was for making a living to support their family?

3)I agree completely. That's what happens everywhere in the world.

Hello Pyro, thanks for concern but I just got bored with the same old shit from both sides, no one has anything innovative to add or show an ounce of bravery in trying to bring the two sides together. Add to this widening gap between the two sides and hey presto status quo rules.

1.Come Pyro people were dissapearing and people were being killed, a small island like this and news can travel all over within a few days, they knew but preffered to let the TCs suffer, whole villages were evacuated everyone knew so accept that GCs were backing their elected leader 100% and his twisted politics to eradicate the island of its TC population.

2.We dont have to make excuses because facts stare us right in the face can you say the same? can you accept your part in this mess?, what you need to undersand and clarify is what ignited all this destruction and loss thats the key, 1974 was the result not the cause.

3.But we are not like them thats where you go wrong, Are the Scots in the UK a minority? Are the Indians a minority in the UK? do they have the same rights to land and power? now do you under the difference?

[Pyrpolizer]

2.We dont have to make excuses because facts stare us right in the face can you say the same? can you accept your part in this mess?, what you need to undersand and clarify is what ignited all this destruction and loss thats the key, 1974 was the result not the cause.

3.But we are not like them thats where you go wrong, Are the Scots in the UK a minority? Are the Indians a minority in the UK? do they have the same rights to land and power? now do you under the difference?

I will only reply to 3 because that's where the many roots of the problem are imo. Cyprus's political system did not evolve democratically. Simply at some point after more than 10 centuries of foreign rule the Cypriots were about to be set free. The British imposed on us that strange London-Zurich system under which the 18% arithmetic minority got inflated rights. Compare that with how the Turkish state was established in the early 1900's. Did any of it's minorities got a say? I don't think there is any example worldwide where the arithmetic minority ever got inflated rights in a naturally evolved system. The closest one is the Swiss model in which no group was a majority anyway...

So root of the problem No1. The Inflated rights of the Kibrislis under the London Zurich system.
Root of problem No2:The Kypreoi thought setting them free should also mean union of Cyprus with Greece (Enosis) because they were the majority
Root of problem No3: Some kibrislis thought Enosis was reasonable but for safety reasons only one part of Cyprus should unite with Greece and another with Turkey.(Taksim). Others thought a part of Cyprus should unite with Turkey anyway, regardless of the Enosis issue.(Nationalist taksimists)

Given all these roots of the problem, I am not really surprised of today's situation. Who would ever expect the Kypreoi (who have been slaves for more than 10 centuries) to have had the wisdom under The London -Zurich agreements to be patient and let the system of "over inflated rights" get normalized under democratic procedures? And who would ever expect the Kibrislis to be equally wise to do the same and not pull the rope to the limits?

In view of these how can I blame anyone for what happened in Cyprus? No blame and no apology is needed. It just happened.All I expect from the Cypriot people is to have learned their lesson and move forward. We should become an independent Sovereign United state. We 've seen what the so called "motherlands" did to us.
And yes there will be new roots for new problems in any solution. This BBF thing is going to be a new root. It may initially sound like partition. The same goes with the "political equality" thing. Unless we all be it the Kypreoi show wisdom and patience and let the system evolve democratically, and the Kibrislis be equally wise and not pull the rope to the limits, we will be back to square 1, the same way we were in the 60s.

Is there any hope? I don't know.

[repulsewarrior]

...it is exactly how Eroglu said it, the Cyprus Problem is a month away from being solved, it only takes good intentions. I suggest that he could stand in front of the Flag of Cyprus (when he addresses the rest of us as Cypriots) and ask, "where are my equals, where are there Cypriot Constituencies, where is a Greek Constituency?" Never mind the Republic, he could say, it serves its Citizens by defending Universal Principals, where we defend each other without distinction or discrimination, for our Freedom, as Individuals. Yet as Persons, because we are Bicommunal, he could ask, why not the Liberty of sustaining our distinct identities, equally, since as Persons we have equal needs?

And, under such conditions, i ask, Sovereignty, out of the debate, a Republic existing, waiting and willing to reform, it would not surprise me that they (Eroglu, and the other representatives of the respective communities, Cypriots recognise as Cypriot) could find unanimity, based on needs. Such needs, so clearly presented, would be of value to a President who must provide the guidance such change needs.

Consider the effect if instead of a debate which divides Cyprus, we divide ourselves; not that you are either Greek, or, Turk, but, that you are a Person, and, an Individual.

As Peoples, and Cypriots, a definition for the words, Bicommunal, and Bizonal, that suits the rest of Mankind's esteem and emulation is possible; but first, Cyprus must exist, (and as for "belonging", it should not be "Greeks", or "Turks" who have "their share",) it is Cypriot.

[Sotos]

The majority of GCs did not know of the atrocities against the TCs in the period between1963-67. Most GCs had not idea what was going on in the enclaves. The majority thought the TCs were going through their own rebellion aiming at taksim through their self isolation, paving the way for Turkey to invade.

The majority of TCs knew very well what happened to the GCs in 1974.
The majority of TCs are happy with it or invent various excuses to justify it. Their leadership misses no chance to justify it, they have even built the museum of barbarity which every TC has to visit at least once to get himself trained to the idea that everything is fine.How many TCs would ever miss a chance repeating like parrots the incidents at Sandalari, Tochni, and Kofinou? And how many would ever think that the GCs might have gone through 100 times more?

Do you really expect people to believe GCs did not know what was going on? , this is total rubbish and you will never get TCs to accept this, it didnt suit them to know, they buried their heads in the sand while TCs were suffering, with only way out was to fight back, what did you expect us to do, bow down to the GCs admins ulitmate goal which was and still is to get rid of the island of its TC population using all means availaible.

Please accept that the spark was not 1974, that was the result of GC discriminative and persecutive actions.

All TCs accept 100% that GCs suffered in 1974 and we will always be sorry that innocent people got hurt and killed but what you have to accept is that GCs played with fire and got burnt real bad.

The GCs had the opportunity to build a Cypriot nation by getting the TCs on board in 1960 but they chose to pursue exclusive politics and TC persecution, the GCs have never seen the TCs as equals only as an annoying minority which needs to be squashed, the day you come to your senses and accept that we have to work together as equal partners to build a future together is the day you will find a solution and unite this island.

You attacked GCs in the 50s. Not to mention the 30.000 Cypriots you killed earlier. And in the 60s it was again you who started it all because you refused to accept democracy. You have NEVER been the victim. You have ALWAYS been the aggressors trying to take away the rights and the lands of the native Cypriots. You lost a few hundreds of people also but that is noting compared to the many 1000s of Cypriots you murdered. If just having losses in wars made a side the innocent victims then the Nazis would be the victims of WWII because they had losses. But you are not the victim when you are the aggressor no matter how many losses you have.

[Sotos]

Are the Scots in the UK a minority? Are the Indians a minority in the UK? do they have the same rights to land and power? now do you under the difference?

The Scots are native people with their own land who inhabited Britain even before the English. You are ALMOST like Indians in the UK. Indians are not native to the UK like Tuks are not native to Cyprus BUT Indians did not invade the UK, the didn't kill 10s of thousands of British, they didn't oppress the native British people. So in order for your minority to be the same as the Indians in the UK you first need to apologize for your aggression against the native Cypriot people. Until then your minority is not even equivalent to the Indian minority in the UK.