Cyprus-Forum.com

[Nikitas]

Local idioms and pronunciations exist in all languages, including the Cypriot dialect, and the old man knew them and hence could detect a Kyrenian.

When we moved to Famagusta from Nicosia in 1958 we were shocked at the local pronunciation that turned the Thita sound to H, like "helo" instead of "thelo".

As for the language you learn while young marking you for life, well, actual examples refute it. Greeks were amazed to hear professor Kizilyurek speaking Greek on live TV a few years back. Late president Clerides spoke better "Athenian" Greek than most Athenians, the same is true for EDEK leader Lyssarides. I mention them because their use of the language is recorded in televised interviews.

A few years back we had a reunion of people from our village residing in Greece. Admittedly many of us have been here for decades. The waiters asked us where the Cypriot gathering was, they could not tell from the speech.

A recent study puts forth the idea that we have a data base of sounds in our memory. When we face the challenge of a foreign language we draw on that data to reproduce the sounds. If the exact sound is not in our experience data bank we choose the one nearest, which explains why the Japanese refer to "Itarian restauran" and Greeks are unable to reproduce double consonant sounds in foreign languages. They are a riot speaking Italian and Spanish, languages that often distinguish meaning by pronouncing double consonants. Perro in Spanish is dog, Pero is however, burro in Italian is butter, buro is desk.

As for the standardisation of language deriving from dialects, that is probably true. Greek was "cleaned up" by a movement led by Korais in the 19th century, and a similar movement arose in Italy after unification. The users of the cleaned up language tend to assume a superior attitude to those still using dialects. There is no end to arguments among German, Austrian and Swiss German speakers about the cleanness of the language. Latin American Spanish speakers poke fun at the Castilians for their "lithpi" sounds which were introduced into the language in deference to a king who spoke with a lisp. Portuguese radio was recently accused of racism because it refused to hire Brasilian protuguese speakers. And we all know the contempt British english users feel for American accents.

[miltiades]

ok

[tsukoui]

It is curious you mention Japan...

The Japanese Language Brain
By Masaomi Ise

They Can't Hear the Insects?

Our story begins with the visit of Professor Tadanobu Tsunoda of Tokyo Medical & Dental University to Havana, Cuba, in January 1987 to attend the 1st international seminar titled "Central Nervous System Disease Physiology and Compensation." Cuba was still under embargo and Prof. Tsunoda was the only participant from a western nation. There was a reception on the night before the seminar began, with many scientists from eastern bloc nations in attendance. A Cuban man was delivering a fervent speech in powerful Spanish.

But Prof. Tsunoda was distracted by the extremely loud sound of insects that enveloped the meeting hall. Realizing that even in January Cuba was hot, Prof. Tsunoda asked someone around him what kind of insect it might be, but no one could hear the insects but him, while to Prof. Tsunoda it sounded like a loud outburst of cicadas or crickets!

When the reception finally ended at about 2 o'clock in the morning, Prof. Tsunoda made his way back with two young Cubans. On the quiet night streets, he could hear the same insect songs as before, but even louder now. Prof. Tsunoda pointed out many times the places in the bushes where he could hear the insects singing, but though the two would stop and stand still to listen intently, they couldn't hear anything. They just looked at him rather strangely, and said he must be tired so have a good night.

Prof. Tsunoda met with the two Cubans every day for some activity or another, but not until the third day did the man finally notice the insects' noise. He didn't seem much interested, however. The woman never did hear the insects during the whole one week seminar. To the doctor it seemed that the hearing of Japanese people and hearing of foreigners had to be very different.

http://www2s.biglobe.ne.jp/nippon/file/jog240e.html

My own story is slightly different. My father was working for NEC promoting their supercomputers, which at the time were the best in the world, when I suddenly started to hear the birds talking. Francis of Assisi I thought... that was when my adventures began...

[Flying Horse]

I don't agree that the Cypriot dialect (or any other Greek dialect) is a version of Standard Greek. That would imply that you first had Standard Greek and the dialects are a derivative of that, but this is not the case. I am not a linguist, but the process is probably the reverse: You first have various dialects and then there is a standardization process that creates "standard Greek" or "standard English".. and probably that standard is based on what most people speak... or what most educated and influential people speak at the capital where such decisions are made. Also I don't fully agree that we can all speak various version of a language. We can fluently speak a language in the version we learned it while growing up. We might understand other versions but we can't fluently speak them. This is why we can usually tell that somebody is a Cypriot even when he is trying to speak like an Athenian. Or when we can understand that somebody is a Charlie

It is rare that my husband type person speaks in his mother tongue. Yes, he was born in London, yes, he grew up(after the age of 6) in Scotland(where he was taught to speak English), however inbetween he grew up in Cyprus(where he only spoke Greek), and both his parents are Greek Cypriot so naturally the language in the house was spoken in this tongue.
When in Cyprus, he occasionally has some difficulty in finding the words to converse with the younger generations, however comes into his own when he talks to the old Aunties and Uncles because they speak in the language which is forever ingrained in memory. The older generation dialect of Morphou.
He fails more so when he is translating 'Greek' Greek, as it is totally different to what his 1970s Cypriot Greek mind is used to!

Hope this makes sense.

[Lordo]

egames da lullacin gori. esi kseris na sindihannis gibreiga, en ikseris. indolis gibrei ise esuni muzurimu.

[Oceanside50]

Local idioms and pronunciations exist in all languages, including the Cypriot dialect, and the old man knew them and hence could detect a Kyrenian.

When we moved to Famagusta from Nicosia in 1958 we were shocked at the local pronunciation that turned the Thita sound to H, like "helo" instead of "thelo".

As for the language you learn while young marking you for life, well, actual examples refute it. Greeks were amazed to hear professor Kizilyurek speaking Greek on live TV a few years back. Late president Clerides spoke better "Athenian" Greek than most Athenians, the same is true for EDEK leader Lyssarides. I mention them because their use of the language is recorded in televised interviews.

A few years back we had a reunion of people from our village residing in Greece. Admittedly many of us have been here for decades. The waiters asked us where the Cypriot gathering was, they could not tell from the speech.

A recent study puts forth the idea that we have a data base of sounds in our memory. When we face the challenge of a foreign language we draw on that data to reproduce the sounds. If the exact sound is not in our experience data bank we choose the one nearest, which explains why the Japanese refer to "Itarian restauran" and Greeks are unable to reproduce double consonant sounds in foreign languages. They are a riot speaking Italian and Spanish, languages that often distinguish meaning by pronouncing double consonants. Perro in Spanish is dog, Pero is however, burro in Italian is butter, buro is desk.

As for the standardisation of language deriving from dialects, that is probably true. Greek was "cleaned up" by a movement led by Korais in the 19th century, and a similar movement arose in Italy after unification. The users of the cleaned up language tend to assume a superior attitude to those still using dialects. There is no end to arguments among German, Austrian and Swiss German speakers about the cleanness of the language. Latin American Spanish speakers poke fun at the Castilians for their "lithpi" sounds which were introduced into the language in deference to a king who spoke with a lisp. Portuguese radio was recently accused of racism because it refused to hire Brasilian protuguese speakers. And we all know the contempt British english users feel for American accents.

Very interesting Nikitas..I heard some Puerto Ricans speaking once and they had the same tone as some Lefkosiates. Sounds like, the emphasis on ehh for a word like Reh. Reh compaaare..For Greeks after the revolution, some elites tried to emulate the French aristocrats and from there some customs and language may have changed, especially in the Athenian circles of Greece, which also gave them a superior attitude.

Local idioms and pronunciations exist in all languages, including the Cypriot dialect, and the old man knew them and hence could detect a Kyrenian.

As for my encounter, I should have asked the gentleman how he knew I was from Kyrenia. But from hearsay I recall someone saying that Cypriots from different regions have certain characteristics that separates them, for instance,Paphians are very clannish and their women are a little too lose, Varoshotes are arrogant, Limassolians are stingy, Tyllirians are crooks and thieves and Kyrenians have a polite disposition. It may be that polite courteousness the older gentleman recognized.

[Nikitas]

French culture is very influential in Greece, despite the initial imposition of a Bavarian king and the later British influence. In language it is evident that some French idioms were imported and directly translated into Greek.

I already said about the mainland Greek in a Larnaca mechanics, he was told there was a problem with his clutch, looked blank at the mechanic, I told him it was his braiaz (from the French embraillage) and he said "na kai enas pou mila ellinika".

You are right about Kyrenians, but the rest you got mixed up, the Varoshiotes always had the reputation of being leventes, generous to a fault, prokommenoi, and renowned for their academic achievements at home and abroad, that I posit objectively as a Famagustian.

[miltiades]

French culture is very influential in Greece, despite the initial imposition of a Bavarian king and the later British influence. In language it is evident that some French idioms were imported and directly translated into Greek.

I already said about the mainland Greek in a Larnaca mechanics, he was told there was a problem with his clutch, looked blank at the mechanic, I told him it was his braiaz (from the French embraillage) and he said "na kai enas pou mila ellinika".

You are right about Kyrenians, but the rest you got mixed up, the Varoshiotes always had the reputation of being leventes, generous to a fault, prokommenoi, and renowned for their academic achievements at home and abroad, that I posit objectively as a Famagustian.

I agree entirely with your sentiments on " Varoshiotes" second only to... Paphites

Varosi was always my favourite Cypriot city, I loved the town and still do, my first investment in Cyprus was in Varosi, a 2 bed appartment on the beach, bought in ....1974 a few months before the Turkish invasion !!!

[Nikitas]

Varosi forever!

[kurupetos]

egames da lullacin gori. esi kseris na sindihannis gibreiga, en ikseris. indolis gibrei ise esuni muzurimu.

Re gurguda, emba mestindribansu.