Cyprus-Forum.com

[repulsewarrior]

3. The settlement will be based on a bi-communal, bi-zonal federation with political equality, as set out in the relevant Security Council Resolutions and the High Level Agreements. The united Cyprus, as a member of the United Nations and of the European Union, shall have a single international legal personality and a single sovereignty, which is defined as the sovereignty which is enjoyed by all member States of the United Nations under the UN Charter and which emanates equally from Greek Cypriots and Turkish Cypriots. There will be a single united Cyprus citizenship, regulated by federal law. All citizens of the united Cyprus shall also be citizens of either the Greek-Cypriot constituent state or the Turkish-Cypriot constituent state. This status shall be internal and shall complement, and not substitute in any way, the united Cyprus citizenship.
The powers of the federal government, and like matters that are clearly incidental to its specified powers, will be assigned by the constitution. The Federal constitution will also provide for the residual powers to be exercised by the constituent states. The constituent states will exercise fully and irrevocably all their powers, free from encroachment by the federal government. The federal laws will not encroach upon constituent state laws, within the constituent states' area of competences, and the constituent states' laws will not encroach upon the federal laws within the federal government's competences. Any dispute in respect thereof will be adjudicated finally by the Federal Supreme Court. Neither side may claim authority or jurisdiction over the other.

...this is paragraph three (as you have quoted it, originally).

While it describes the competencies of a constituent state, its exclusivity as a Jurisdiction, there is more to the paragraph than that, thus, I find your interpretation a bit short once again. Electors and Citizens are not the same Lordo, because as a Citizen you are the Citizen of the Republic, an Individual, whatever you are as a Person does not come first, it should not even matter. Cyprus, this government as a Cypriot's representation as Cypriots, does exist and will continue to exist (although Constitutionally reformed) by the will of the voters, the People, without further distinction or discrimination, identified by being Cypriot, as Cypriots. Electors, as in the self-representation allowed for, and proposed, with Constituent states, at another level of Government, does not constitute Citizenship; in Cyprus, Cypriots have Free Movement. Persons, Individuals choosing "who" they are as Persons (Liberty), choose where to live too (Freedom), and within that context, either a part of this distinct identity (geographically speaking), or a Minority within it. Nothing denies the existence of a set of Cypriot Constituencies. And as i've also said, whether Greeks (or the other "Communities") as a Constituency choose to benefit as Turcophones wish to, is mute. In either case there will exist a Federal Government, which in some respects is superior because, while the Constituencies would be equal, no Constituency has the powers exclusive to the Federal Government itself.

[Kikapu]

first of all tc population have no intention of leaving the union.

secondly the majority for each side will be in the federal law.

thirdly if anybody like in 1963 it will be the gc fascists who will try to use human rights to take away the tc majority in the north. just like in 1963 when they used the false impression that they were looking for their human rights to enosise with greace and destroy the roc.

and finally you forget that the federal soldiers will be made of 50/50 tc/gc and armed equally. if you think the tc soldiers will attack the tc state you have finally gone to the lunarland again.

but i will remind you of this statement too in good time.

So what you are saying is, TCs who are in the Federal military force who have sworn to defend the Federal constitution and the country from all enemies, foreign and domestic, will refuse to take any action should the need be in the "TC state". Is that what you are saying?

So what good is it to have any TCs in the Federal military if they wont take any action if it's needed in the north?

i said what i meant. whay do you feel the need to expalin what i meant. my comment was clear and concise. if you dont understand it by all means expalin it to your self.

here is another one. the federal law makers will also be 50/50 tc/gc.

perhaps you can do usual and explain what i mean by this. unless of course you prefer to shove it in your pipe and try to smoke it.

So Lordo, you want a Federation Cyprus for the TCs but you don't want the TCs to carry 50% of the weight to make it work.

Do you know how idiotic you sound.

If I were the GCs, I wouldn't make any Federation deals with the TCs either, if your mind(less)set represents the majority of the TCs.

[Lordo]

first of all tc population have no intention of leaving the union.

secondly the majority for each side will be in the federal law.

thirdly if anybody like in 1963 it will be the gc fascists who will try to use human rights to take away the tc majority in the north. just like in 1963 when they used the false impression that they were looking for their human rights to enosise with greace and destroy the roc.

and finally you forget that the federal soldiers will be made of 50/50 tc/gc and armed equally. if you think the tc soldiers will attack the tc state you have finally gone to the lunarland again.

but i will remind you of this statement too in good time.

So what you are saying is, TCs who are in the Federal military force who have sworn to defend the Federal constitution and the country from all enemies, foreign and domestic, will refuse to take any action should the need be in the "TC state". Is that what you are saying?

So what good is it to have any TCs in the Federal military if they wont take any action if it's needed in the north?

i said what i meant. whay do you feel the need to expalin what i meant. my comment was clear and concise. if you dont understand it by all means expalin it to your self.

here is another one. the federal law makers will also be 50/50 tc/gc.

perhaps you can do usual and explain what i mean by this. unless of course you prefer to shove it in your pipe and try to smoke it.

So Lordo, you want a Federation Cyprus for the TCs but you don't want the TCs to carry 50% of the weight to make it work.

Do you know how idiotic you sound.

If I were the GCs, I wouldn't make any Federation deals with the TCs either, if your mind(less)set represents the majority of the TCs.

you should give up interpreting what i am posting. its not as if it aint english is it. you got no clue man. too old like the other old fool.

[repulsewarrior]

...it's like you guys imagine that a vote for the Federal government, is a vote, your vote, as a "Turk", or a "Greek", (or to be more accurate, as a "Turk", and everybody else). Such a notion is ridiculous, but it seems you have yourselves convinced that this is what is to be offered.

...it's like you guys think that there is only one vote, that is all you get. But by its very nature, Bicommunal, and/or Bizonal, implies two, votes. Since it is the Turkish Constituency that is proposed, (rather than a set of Cypriot Constituencies) i suggest that the electors in this Jurisdiction will have a second vote, for their representation as a constituent state. What is the rest of Cyprus, if you will, will act as a Unitary state, simply because there are no other Constituencies who feel their self-representation as Persons is a cost that does not outweigh the benefit.

...this in the shorter run, but not in the longer run, 50-150 years, as opposed to 200 years and more, is practical. I suggest that Cypriots can recognise the changes which will occur to the island's demographics as unstoppable, and that while Greek, and Turkish are spoken today, something can be done today to promote a willingness to continue this interest, to sustain an ethnos, and the languages that makes Cyprus more distinctive, because those that speak these languages, Cypriot languages if you will, have less and less reason to, with the Information Age. Those that will be called Cypriot whether Grecophone or Turcophone will be multi-lingual, as urban dwellers they will likely need to be multi-lingual (and English), and they will likely represent the majority, when compared to the "Greeks", and the "Turks", born on the island too. They need representation. Frankly, a Greek Constituency, (like one representing Maronites, another Armenians, and even one for the Latins,) would free Cyprus, the Republic, from this need for representation as "Greeks". Instead the Federal Government will provide the security, and guidance, Constituencies need as equals. Futuristic-ly it may provide for the changes Cyprus is expected to make, a Federal Government which is free from the bias that is presently implied, (that the government is "Greek", whether they are or not the overwhelming population on the island), because as Persons, Greeks would have expression for this identity as Persons specifically, and being Bicommunal, as Cypriots returning (after about 400 years) to their place as the facilitators of exchange for three continents, from being a backwater, a barrack, and a nice spot for a holiday vacation, before 1960.

..."You"/You don't know what "you"/you are asking for, it seems.

[Lordo]

rw it real simple. we get one vote each and we are allowed to vote and live where we like, as well as stand for parliament with just one control. tc state will have 67% majority. what happens in 50 or a hundred or 500 years time we shall leave to the future generations. i am sure they can change the system in the future for betterment of everybody. but if the gcs expect to be allowed to be a majority in the north it will not be. of course there is always possibility that we have no controls what so ever and let the future generations deal with the problems they face. but of course if gc state decided to give incentives to increase their number in the north do i need to tell you what will happen. i am sure you can work it out yourself without my help.

[repulsewarrior]

...i would welcome "Greeks" as you call them who would settle, and prosper, because they provide the kind of service that merits such reward. In such a circumstance, as in a Turkish Constituent State, in Cyprus, one can expect that that person would likely have adapted, having become a Turcophone, who as an elector, and taxpayer cares for this identity, and its betterment.

...sick minds made Turkey a country barren of Greeks, the same minds who for their sake, there is the Problem.

Again, there is no so-called "gc state". There will be it seems, Freedom as Cypriots, everywhere in Cyprus, and in the Turkish Constituency, if you reside there, the Liberty to identify yourself as Turkish Cypriot, Turcophone speaking, and as an elector having an Agenda which sustains and promotes this identity.

[Nikitas]

Whoever chose March 26, if someone chose it that is, should be fired from the diplomatic corps.

March 25 is a double festival for Greeks, a major ccelebration of the Virgin Mary, and the 1821 rebellion.

And just 24 hours later you expect to get a yes vote to BBF which is heralded by all GC and Greek politicians as a "historic compromise".

Like asking Americans to vote for dissolution of the Union on July 5. Dumb and dumber.

[Lordo]

Whoever chose March 26, if someone chose it that is, should be fired from the diplomatic corps.

March 25 is a double festival for Greeks, a major ccelebration of the Virgin Mary, and the 1821 rebellion.

And just 24 hours later you expect to get a yes vote to BBF which is heralded by all GC and Greek politicians as a "historic compromise".

Like asking Americans to vote for dissolution of the Union on July 5. Dumb and dumber.

ideal date would be april first the day eoka was formed. or perhaps 15 th of july just to remind you how the hall we got here.

[kurupetos]

Whoever chose March 26, if someone chose it that is, should be fired from the diplomatic corps.

March 25 is a double festival for Greeks, a major ccelebration of the Virgin Mary, and the 1821 rebellion.

And just 24 hours later you expect to get a yes vote to BBF which is heralded by all GC and Greek politicians as a "historic compromise".

Like asking Americans to vote for dissolution of the Union on July 5. Dumb and dumber.

ideal date would be april first the day eoka was formed. or perhaps 15 th of july just to remind you how the hall we got here.

...or maybe on your birthday to remember that shit happens...

[Lordo]

Whoever chose March 26, if someone chose it that is, should be fired from the diplomatic corps.

March 25 is a double festival for Greeks, a major ccelebration of the Virgin Mary, and the 1821 rebellion.

And just 24 hours later you expect to get a yes vote to BBF which is heralded by all GC and Greek politicians as a "historic compromise".

Like asking Americans to vote for dissolution of the Union on July 5. Dumb and dumber.

ideal date would be april first the day eoka was formed. or perhaps 15 th of july just to remind you how the hall we got here.

...or maybe on your birthday to remember that shit happens...

personal experience is it shiallaruimmu.