Kikapu wrote:Tim Drayton wrote:Kikapu wrote:Tim Drayton wrote:Am I the only one whose credibility is stretched by scenes of the crowds who supposedly spontaneously took to the streets and armed only with things like sticks and belts and took on and defeated the military in the streets and then gave some of the soldiers a good thrashing? If it’s so easy, how come Gezi was defeated?
Tim, this so called "coup" was an inside job, orchestrated by Erdogan. Most of the troops who took part in this so called "coup" were loyal to Erdogan who has convinced some others to join in with this "coup". I'm almost certain, with the live coverage of the soldiers surrendering on the Bosporus Bridge were all Erdogan's men, to show that the coup had not succeeded. Call me a cynic if you want, but this was no coup, because if it was, Erdogan would be either dead by now or he would be in jail like Morsi. The ones that joined in, are the ones who were either killed or will be tried for treason and all of the Erdogan's troops in the "coup" will walk away with a bonus payment. This so called "coup" was nothing but a staged act, to show that Erdogan has the backing of the people, to get rid of almost 3,000 judges the very next day, so the list of judges needed to be got ridden off must have been compiled in advance, and getting rid of some of the military personnel also, as well as asking the US to send back Gülen. Turkish military is very good in having coups with 100% success record in the last half century, so why would they fcuk this one up if it really was a coup? This is all an attempt for Erdogan to get all the power he wants and get rid of his opposer at the same time.
I wouldn't totally rule anything out, but there is plenty of evidence that these people were indeed Gulenists - of course, all of the 6,000 odd people who have been arrested for supposed involvement will all stand accused in show trials of being part of a Gulenist plot and will all be found guilty (incidentally, if it was staged by Erdoğan then look out for the leaders of the attempted coup eventually all being let off) - but there is also real evidence that they were at the core of this hurried and botched attempt at a coup. For one thing, journalist Ahmet Şık says so and he is somebody whose views I trust and who I have seen has turned out to be right about things in the past. He says that a public prosecutor named Okan Bato who was investigating Gulenists in the armed forces had obtained an arrest warrant and a massive raid was planned for 4 in the morning on Friday 15th in which large numbers of suspected Gulenists in the armed forces were to be detained and, having got wind of this, they decided to attempt a coup while they still could the evening before. I think it is more likely, rather than the whole thing being staged by Erdoğan, that they either infiltrated provocateurs into this group to try to instigate this move or else they had prior intelligence about the coup attempt and let it go ahead because it suited their purposes. It is certainly interesting that these crowds the 'spontaneously' poured into the streets - and from photographs, I can't help thinking that they look like the same old AKP thugs, the equivalent of the Nazi brownshirts, who keep on appearing on the streets to do the AKP's dirty work when needed - seemed to know exactly where to go and where the soldiers would be.
Either way, I don't think it matters much. This event is just what Erdoğan needed to finally cement his dictatorship and that is what he will now attempt to do. He may still fail, though. History is full of ironies.
As to the Turkish military, you have to realise that it is a very different beast nowadays. The real aim of the notorious Ergenekon show trials, and there may or may not have been some kind of move to stage a coup at that time, but most of it was a travesty of justice and it has collapsed on appeal, was to ruthlessly weed all of the strong supporters of secularism/Kemalism out of the armed forces and since then the AKP has ruthlessly controlled who gets into the military academies - for example, there has been a blanket ban on the sons of former officers. So, the days when the military acts as the bastion of secularism/Kemalism and steps in to put things straight if it thinks the government is straying too far from the true path are well and truly numbered. It is only a matter of time before the military guardianship is resurrected, but this time in support of Erdoğan's dictatorship and Islamofascism. Otherwise, of course the Turkish military could stage a successful coup if it really wanted to.
By the way, there wasn't a 100% success record with coups, in fact. There was an attempted coup in 1962 led by an officer called Talat Aydemir that failed. The truism is often voiced in Turkey that a coup can only succeed there if this is what the USA wants, and I think there is a good deal of truth in it.
Thanks Tim. The only thing that doesn't make sense however, is that, if the Gülenist in the military were about to be detained and ultimately kicked out, why would they stage a coup with such low numbers that was sure to fail and be faced with treason instead. One of the AKP figures stated that this coup was a "God sent"!
How many Gulenists are there in the military, for one thing? I don't know. It seems they thought their action would spark off a wider uprising, if it had any logic to it. The message they broadcast on state TV was clearly targeted at secularists presumably to make them think that it was a classic Kemalist coup. One of the interesting things, I think, is that absolutely nobody in the secular camp came out in support of the coup.
