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Cypriots at Dunkirk

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Re: Cypriots at Dunkirk

Postby Jery » Thu Oct 29, 2020 5:47 pm

Londonrake wrote:
Jery wrote:What makes me really mad about what happened to people like my father is that after risking their lives for the British Empire in WW2 the UK government has reneged on their undertaking to "uphold the territorial integrity and independence of Cyprus", in fact it's worse than that as they appear to be Turkey's bum chums.


I doubt anybody who fought against the tyranny of Nazi Germany in WW2 did so for the greater glory of the British Empire. Certainly none of my family, some of whom perished in the struggle.

I’m not going to get sucked into yet another discussion about what happened in 74 and since, but as far as contemporary Turkey’s concerned I doubt there would be enough space to get a cigarette paper between our opinions of Erdogan and his activities.

I don’t know what you mean by “bum chums”. I’m definitely not. Others can speak for themselves. :?


UK Government supplies Turkey with military hardware and is currently designing a military aircraft for Turkey, not too many years ago Cameron was chief cheerleader for Turkey joining the EU - ergo bum chum.
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Re: Cypriots at Dunkirk

Postby Get Real! » Thu Oct 29, 2020 5:56 pm

Talking about Turkey's bum chums...

The irony is our foolhardy archbishop recently recognizing the Ukrainian Orthodox breakaway from Russia, while the Ukraine has become bum chums with Turkey!

https://www.thenationalherald.com/commu ... e-1104443/

https://apnews.com/article/ukraine-turk ... f4a4c73867
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Re: Cypriots at Dunkirk

Postby Londonrake » Thu Oct 29, 2020 6:15 pm

Just to show I'm not deaf to the accusation. I don't think it's a case of "bum chums" though, perhaps more one of getting on with the log-jam of major problems at home whilst Macron takes the lead on this.

A pay-walled article:

"Britain has shamefully left it to Emmanuel Macron to confront the Turkish threat.

As someone who is used to getting his own way, Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan is clearly riled that Emmanuel Macron, his French opposite number, is trying to thwart his increasingly aggressive efforts to bolster his standing in the Muslim world.

Whether it is backing Islamist militias in Libya, or providing military support to Azerbaijan in its recent offensive to reclaim the disputed region of Nagorno-Karabakh from Armenia, Mr Erdogan is showing a reckless appetite for military adventurism. The only problem is that, at almost every turn, the Turkish despot’s actions are meeting with unwelcome resistance from Mr Macron.

While Britain, in common with most other European nations, has tended to turn a blind eye to Mr Erdogan’s increasingly offensive behaviour, France has been conspicuous in its attempts to curb the Turkish leader’s expansionist designs.

In Libya, for example, France has lent its backing to the rebel leader General Khalifa Haftar, who has been involved in fierce fighting against the Turkish-backed militias based in the Libyan capital, Tripoli. In addition, France has provided military support to Greece and Cyprus in response to Turkey’s attempts – taken in conjunction with Tripoli – to claim access to vast energy reserves in the eastern Mediterranean. And, more recently, Mr Macron has been forthright in condemning Turkey’s “bellicose” support for Azerbaijan during the escalation of tensions in the South Caucasus.

The confrontational attitude he has adopted towards the Turkish leader is part of a broader effort on the part of the Elysee Palace to assert itself in traditional areas of French influence, with Mr Macron's high profile intervention in Lebanon’s latest political crisis being a case in point.

France’s more assertive approach to these important regional issues, moreover, is the reason why Mr Erdogan has felt it necessary to launch his rancorous attack on the French President. He claimed Mr Macron needed “a mental health check up” when the latter condemned Islamist extremism after a Chechen terrorist decapitated a French teacher for showing pupils a cartoon depicting the Prophet Mohammed. Paris has now withdrawn its ambassador in protest.

If the Turkish leader’s intemperate outburst is likely to raise questions about his own mental well-being, the diplomatic spat between Paris and Ankara also begs the question as to why the British Government is not adopting the same robust stance as France in curbing Mr Erdogan’s ambitions. Compared with France, Britain’s voice has been strangely muted in confronting Turkey, even though it could be argued that, given Britain’s recent history of involvement in the Middle East, it has far more at stake.

Unlike France, Britain has been a prominent player in the major conflicts to affect the region over the past three decades or so. The fact, for example, that Iraq today has a democratically-elected government, one whose recently-appointed prime minister, Mustafa Al-Kadhimi, met with Boris Johnson last week, is, ultimately, the legacy of Britain’s participation in the controversial military campaign to overthrow Saddam Hussein.

Libya, too, is another country where Britain has made a decisive contribution to reshaping the political landscape, even if the prospect of establishing Iraqi-style democracy in Tripoli is less certain. Nor should we forget Britain’s military contribution to defeating the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (Isil) fanatics who briefly established their so-called caliphate in Syria and Iraq.

Britain’s investment in these campaigns far exceeds that of France, which abstained from the Iraq war and played a marginal role in defeating Isil. And yet, at a time when Mr Erdogan’s increasingly aggressive approach, together with his support for Islamist extremists such as the Muslim Brotherhood, threatens to create a new era of instability, it is France, not Britain that is making all the running.

Some may question whether our Prime Minister, who still includes his role as President of the Anglo Turkish Society on his list of ministerial interests and is said to be proud of his Turkish ancestry, has any appetite for a confrontation with Mr Erdogan. When Mr Johnson last spoke to the Turkish president, at the start of the Nagorno-Karabakh flare-up, the conversation – according to a statement issued by Mr Erdogan’s office – concentrated on improving trade ties and “further cooperation in the defence industry.”

Britain’s approach to the Erdogan problem is certainly the complete opposite of France’s, although I suspect the more likely explanation for this is that, after all the controversies over Britain’s military involvement in the recent conflicts in Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria and Libya, there is the overwhelming view in Whitehall that, when it comes to dealing with Mr Erdogan, we are happy for France to take the initiative.

Even so, adopting such a supine pose risks undermining Mr Johnson’s ambitious plan for Global Britain, an admirable concept that, if it is to have any clout, means taking a stand against authoritarian despots like Mr Erdogan."
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Re: Cypriots at Dunkirk

Postby Maximus » Thu Oct 29, 2020 8:10 pm

Yes, Britain has left it to Macron to confront Turkey.

France in front and Britain behind,

Making it look like they are doing nothing.

:lol:

All I know is that Turkey is fckd economically, politically, morally and militarily in every direction.

And Endorgan is running out of options.

Either foreign powers will destroy him or Turks themselves will. Maybe both.

He has put Turkey on a highway to hell.
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Re: Cypriots at Dunkirk

Postby Get Real! » Thu Oct 29, 2020 10:24 pm

It would be nice if it were that simple Maximus but alas…

Even though France could militarily wipe Turkey off the map they don’t really have a reason to other than some insults thrown at their president, which won’t be enough to warrant a war.

Britain; fearful of future EU trade, can’t afford to make new enemies right now so they’ll want to preserve good trade relations with Turkey in case the EU gets shitty with them.

Germany seems to consistently behave like the unconditionally loving parent of a naughty juvenile son (Turkey) with frequent feeble cautions but always ready to bail him out of jail if the need arises.

Russia, under an aging and insecure Putin seems more concerned about being liked and securing/preserving gas supplies than anything else, so not even he seems concerned about Turkey’s maneuvers in N/K.

The US seems to still be hopeful that Turkey will remain a defensive wall against the imaginary southern “Soviet expansion” and are thus stuck in limbo about punishing Turkey with laughable maneuvers such as the dumb and useless offers made to Cyprus recently.

Israel won’t be interested to get involved unless the pipeline project is under any serious threat so they’re just observing for now and Turkey will probably avoid anything stupid that affects Israel.

The EU is more concerned about pleasing US interests in confronting the imaginary “Soviet expansion” than dealing with Turkey as we recently saw.

So overall it’s not looking good…
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Re: Cypriots at Dunkirk

Postby Maximus » Thu Oct 29, 2020 11:29 pm

I cant argue with any of that GR.

But its not like Turkey needs any help.

Erdogone and the people voting for him are doing a spectacular job all by themselves.

They have turned Turkey in to an isolated destitute Orwellian failed state that will probably tear itself to peaces from within.

Erdogone seems to think that he is foiling foreign diplomatic plots and economic attacks though. :lol:

At least he disagrees with us..... :lol:

https://ahvalnews.com/recep-tayyip-erdo ... ay-address
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Re: Cypriots at Dunkirk

Postby Paphitis » Fri Oct 30, 2020 1:19 am

Get Real! wrote:
Paphitis wrote:Many Greek soldiers too were there. They were very much favoured by the Australians and Kiwis.

In fact, many of the Greek Soldiers that were evacuated from Greek ended up with Australian and Kiwi forces in Africa.

An entire book was written about the Greek Soldiers and how they interacted with the Aussies. Australian soldiers preferred Greek Soldiers over British because they could relate better.

There were some Cyprus regiment but many Greeks. They became so close Australian Government was trying to save the lives of so many Greek soldiers that were to be executed by the Papagos Government in Greece after WW2.

16 on death row were saved because Australia pressured Papagos, whom they did not like at all. I think the 16 ended up in Australia.

The thread title reads… Cypriots at Dunkirk”.

It doesn’t say “Cypriots and heretics at Dunkirk” !


Why?

There were Cypriots in Africa as well. And these Cypriots and Hellenes were fighting against the infamous NAZIs led by Rommel himself who was an absolute military legend and also feared for many good reasons.

The stories about The Rats of Tobruk, which had some Cypriots and many Hellenes from Crete especially attached to them, are legendary and someone should make a movie.

I think both Greece and Cyprus should be very proud. There is good reason why both the Aussies and Kiwis liked the "heretics" from Greece.
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Re: Cypriots at Dunkirk

Postby Paphitis » Fri Oct 30, 2020 1:26 am

Jery wrote:
Londonrake wrote:YW.

I know that about 30,000 Cypriots fought against the Nazis. I'm sure, like any Cypriot politician, views will be diverse and of course passionate. I did though have a lot of non political admiration for Clerides, whom I know was a Wellington pilot, shot down over Germany and made a POW. With a busted leg to start he escaped from a Stalag. Three bloody times! Mentioned in despatches.

Respect.


Clerides initially trained as a pilot but was gunner/wireless operator when he was shot down, I'm not sure if he ever qualified as a pilot. My dad was in the RAF too, he met Clerides at Exeter RAF base, being two of the few, if any, Cypriots stationed there they became quite good friends and kept in touch after the war, dad visited him several times when he was in office in Nicosia.

What makes me really mad about what happened to people like my father is that after risking their lives for the British Empire in WW2 the UK government has reneged on their undertaking to "uphold the territorial integrity and independence of Cyprus", in fact it's worse than that as they appear to be Turkey's bum chums.


I doubt anyone was fighting for the British Empire.

It was a war against NAZI imperialism. This wasn't a war about British imperialism as most European countries, Britain included, were running the gauntlet against the NAZIs who were dominant and could have easily won as well if it wasn't for a few mistakes they made like the Japanese hitting Pearl Harbour,

Face it! If it wasn't for the Yanks and the Eastern Front (Russians), Europe would have lost.
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Re: Cypriots at Dunkirk

Postby Paphitis » Fri Oct 30, 2020 1:31 am

Jery wrote:
Londonrake wrote:
Jery wrote:What makes me really mad about what happened to people like my father is that after risking their lives for the British Empire in WW2 the UK government has reneged on their undertaking to "uphold the territorial integrity and independence of Cyprus", in fact it's worse than that as they appear to be Turkey's bum chums.


I doubt anybody who fought against the tyranny of Nazi Germany in WW2 did so for the greater glory of the British Empire. Certainly none of my family, some of whom perished in the struggle.

I’m not going to get sucked into yet another discussion about what happened in 74 and since, but as far as contemporary Turkey’s concerned I doubt there would be enough space to get a cigarette paper between our opinions of Erdogan and his activities.

I don’t know what you mean by “bum chums”. I’m definitely not. Others can speak for themselves. :?


UK Government supplies Turkey with military hardware and is currently designing a military aircraft for Turkey, not too many years ago Cameron was chief cheerleader for Turkey joining the EU - ergo bum chum.


It wasn't just cameron. It was Germany, Hungary, and so many more. The EU were bum chums. The policy was about Turkish appeasement. The Americans practiced it too and had the same policy.

The idea was, that the US, EU and others can control Turkey and that perhaps Turkey would be a model good citizen that was promoting stability, peace and international norms.

Greece and Cyprus were also part of the problem, trying to appease Turkey.

What the EU, and US are suddenly realizing is that Erdogan is behaving like a benevolent dictator who wants to pick fights with everyone in the region and that their policies just haven't worked.

Greece and Cyprus are realizing it too. Well Greece is at least. Cypriot politicians are more worried about their 5 star hotel developments in Protaras. :lol:
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Re: Cypriots at Dunkirk

Postby Paphitis » Fri Oct 30, 2020 1:39 am

Get Real! wrote:It would be nice if it were that simple Maximus but alas…

Even though France could militarily wipe Turkey off the map they don’t really have a reason to other than some insults thrown at their president, which won’t be enough to warrant a war.

Britain; fearful of future EU trade, can’t afford to make new enemies right now so they’ll want to preserve good trade relations with Turkey in case the EU gets shitty with them.

Germany seems to consistently behave like the unconditionally loving parent of a naughty juvenile son (Turkey) with frequent feeble cautions but always ready to bail him out of jail if the need arises.

Russia, under an aging and insecure Putin seems more concerned about being liked and securing/preserving gas supplies than anything else, so not even he seems concerned about Turkey’s maneuvers in N/K.

The US seems to still be hopeful that Turkey will remain a defensive wall against the imaginary southern “Soviet expansion” and are thus stuck in limbo about punishing Turkey with laughable maneuvers such as the dumb and useless offers made to Cyprus recently.

Israel won’t be interested to get involved unless the pipeline project is under any serious threat so they’re just observing for now and Turkey will probably avoid anything stupid that affects Israel.

The EU is more concerned about pleasing US interests in confronting the imaginary “Soviet expansion” than dealing with Turkey as we recently saw.

So overall it’s not looking good…


You forgot that Germany sees Turkey as a source of cheap labour and German manufacturing. They are opening Mercedes and VW factories in Turkey whilst Greece slept for a decade or more.

I always believed Greece would have met Germany's requirements to be a manufacturing base for German cars. but sadly Greece had no vision or desire. All they had to do was offer some inducements like tax breaks and who knows - Mercedes and VW would be in Greece employing thousands of Greeks.

The UK doesn't really need Turkey that much. they are the main instigators from what I can see for CANZUK. So whilst they leave the EU, they may enter into a trade block with Canada, Australia and NZ and it won't be just a trade block either. It will be similar to the EU. And the scary thing is this, France is being courted by Australia and NZ and France might come because they have interests in the Pacific.
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