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How Machines Learn

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How Machines Learn

Postby Sotos » Wed Dec 20, 2017 7:01 pm

A fun intro:



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Re: How Machines Learn

Postby Pyrpolizer » Thu Dec 21, 2017 6:50 pm

I don't think we can go much deeper in this discussion considering there are no experts in this forum, and the one and only who would be expected to know something actually lives in the Middle Ages of computing.
Training neural nets to do specific tasks has been known for a long time now.
I think most computer programs that deal with stock Exchange buy-sells are based on trained neural nets.
Character recognition of scanned documents is also based on machine learning.
Just to name a few examples...
Sorry Sotos, that's all I can contribute.
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Re: How Machines Learn

Postby Sotos » Thu Dec 21, 2017 8:27 pm

The one who would be expected to know something about this topic in this forum is me ;) And I do know a few things but nowhere near as the people who are actually working in the field. Yes... this is not something new. I took an AI course at university 15+ years ago, and also an Image Processing course which is related. I also took a Neural Networks course... but I withdrew after a few days because it was a lot of work and I didn't need it to graduate. One of my professors was an expert in this field and he had earlier designed a neural networks based AI system for the stock-market. But what is different now is what is called "big data" and of course a lot more computing power. Plus more knowledge that was gained in this field over the last years.
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Re: How Machines Learn

Postby Pyrpolizer » Thu Dec 21, 2017 11:59 pm

Sotos wrote:The one who would be expected to know something about this topic in this forum is me ;) And I do know a few things but nowhere near as the people who are actually working in the field. Yes... this is not something new. I took an AI course at university 15+ years ago, and also an Image Processing course which is related. I also took a Neural Networks course... but I withdrew after a few days because it was a lot of work and I didn't need it to graduate. One of my professors was an expert in this field and he had earlier designed a neural networks based AI system for the stock-market. But what is different now is what is called "big data" and of course a lot more computing power. Plus more knowledge that was gained in this field over the last years.


When I said the one and only I meant "apart from the the initiator of the topic" :wink:

Also a correction to my previous post:
I think we can go much deeper --> I think we can't go much deeper
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Re: How Machines Learn

Postby B25 » Fri Dec 22, 2017 9:26 am

Sotos wrote:The one who would be expected to know something about this topic in this forum is me ;)


That's very presumptuous of you Sotos, I did an AI / Robotics course in Uni back in '81, my professor was an authority on the subject. At the time it was very new and I young :wink: and didn't really take to it.

With the coming of advanced computing power I can appreciate the quantum leaps that are being made in this field and yes I do believe that as some near future time we will be managed by these systems.
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Re: How Machines Learn

Postby Sotos » Fri Dec 22, 2017 7:38 pm

B25 wrote:
Sotos wrote:The one who would be expected to know something about this topic in this forum is me ;)


That's very presumptuous of you Sotos, I did an AI / Robotics course in Uni back in '81, my professor was an authority on the subject. At the time it was very new and I young :wink: and didn't really take to it.

With the coming of advanced computing power I can appreciate the quantum leaps that are being made in this field and yes I do believe that as some near future time we will be managed by these systems.


I made it clear that I am not an expert by any means ;) ... just more knowledgeable in this specific topic from the other regulars of this forum (unless somebody here is hiding his talents!). From the sound of it you probably studied some form of engineering ... mechanical maybe?
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Re: How Machines Learn

Postby GreekIslandGirl » Sat Dec 23, 2017 1:08 am

I haven't watched the videos yet, Sotos - will try to find time over the next week.

Meanwhile, I remember reading about how they let robots bump their way around a room so that they can get the co-ordinates (or whatever they are called) to work out their own extremities / size / physical / spatial limits. This suggests, then, that they acquire a sense of 'self' and their place in the world.

However, we keep coming back to the main point about being given so much choice: as they learn more moves/options, they (AI) will become inert as they would be unable to choose what to do - because, apparently, when we know all the options, in the end, it is our emotions that pick the one path/choice to make.

So until programmers can figure out how to introduce an element of emotion into the choice parameters AI will just remain a fancy calculator.
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Re: How Machines Learn

Postby Sotos » Sat Dec 23, 2017 1:36 am

So until programmers can figure out how to introduce an element of emotion into the choice parameters AI will just remain a fancy calculator.


Emotions are affected by things like primitive instincts and hormones (things that also exist in other animals) and not so much by reason. Something doesn't need to have emotions to be intelligent. Giving to AI its own emotions would make it unpredictable and dangerous. The aim should be to have AI that can help us, not AI that can replace us. We can serve the role of "primitive instincts" for AI, i.e. we tell it what it wants. So our aim should be the opposite: How to make sure that no "emotions" arise out of the AI!
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Re: How Machines Learn

Postby Pyrpolizer » Sat Dec 23, 2017 9:38 pm

GreekIslandGirl wrote:
However, we keep coming back to the main point about being given so much choice: as they learn more moves/options, they (AI) will become inert as they would be unable to choose what to do - because, apparently, when we know all the options, in the end, it is our emotions that pick the one path/choice to make.
.


It doesn't need emotions to decide. All it needs is a one liner code to bypass impasses: "Make a random choice".
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Re: How Machines Learn

Postby GreekIslandGirl » Sun Dec 24, 2017 12:21 am

Sotos wrote: .... Something doesn't need to have emotions to be intelligent......


On the contrary:

When emotional intelligence first appeared to the masses in 1995, it served as the missing link in a peculiar finding: people with average IQs outperform those with the highest IQs 70% of the time. This anomaly threw a massive wrench into what many people had always assumed was the sole source of success—IQ. Decades of research now point to emotional intelligence as the critical factor that sets star performers apart from the rest of the pack.

http://www.talentsmart.com/about/emotio ... igence.php

We have senses and instincts like most animals: hormone/chemical based responses to the physical world. They can cause feelings (fight or flight) when we try and interpret the world. Perhaps AI can more readily acquire feelings than emotions.
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