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Chernobyl

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Re: Chernobyl

Postby repulsewarrior » Wed Mar 13, 2019 1:09 am

...all this makes me think about the nuclear reactors Turkey is building with Russia, (on the coast near Cyprus, in an active earthquake zone).
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Re: Chernobyl

Postby Robin Hood » Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:36 am

repulsewarrior wrote:...all this makes me think about the nuclear reactors Turkey is building with Russia, (on the coast near Cyprus, in an active earthquake zone).


Let us hope that 'lessons-have-been-learned'. The one saving grace for us is that the prevailing wind seems to be from the West and very rarely from the North, so it would get blown toward Turkey/Syria and even toward Russia itself as the Northern hemisphere gets anti-cyclones I think and that would swirl toward the Northern part.

STUD: I got my knowledge from 'GOOGLE' not too reliable these days. But I know that even in a large organisation those at the top rarely have any great knowledge of what goes on the shop floor. So, many Managers would firstly look for a scapegoat to cover their failures and I know for a fact, those that expressed concerns previously and were ignored are not part of that chain of information and previous advice/warnings get buried. I would therefore assume that a large Government machine would run likewise.

Thank you both for the first hand information. I now know more than I did at the beginning of the week. :wink:
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Re: Chernobyl

Postby Londonrake » Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:54 pm

Robin Hood wrote:Thank you both for the first hand information. I now know more than I did at the beginning of the week. :wink:


Wow! That's gotta be a first. PR? :wink:
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Re: Chernobyl

Postby Pyrpolizer » Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:49 pm

This site explains what happened and says among other things that the station managers did not ask permission from the Soviet regulator to carry out the test.

http://www.chernobylgallery.com/chernob ... ter/cause/

Code: Select all
The Chernobyl power plant had been in operation for two years without the capability to ride through the first 60–75 seconds of a total loss of electric power and thus lacked an important safety feature. The station managers presumably wished to correct this at the first opportunity, which may explain why they continued the test even when serious problems arose, and why the requisite approval for the test had not been sought from the Soviet nuclear oversight regulator (even though there was a representative at the complex of 4 reactors).
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Re: Chernobyl

Postby supporttheunderdog » Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:20 am

Here is a link to the book written by the man in charge of the experiment in which he claimed unreported design features were to blame and in which he exhonorated the staff and himself from any operational error.
http://www.lib.ru/MEMUARY/CHERNOBYL/dyatlow.txt
The text is in Russian but The Translate facility in Google Chrome seems to work fairly well.

One has to remember the USSR was not an open society but information was compartmentalised and in particular if involved the military and/or thinks like power stations..

In the early investigations the USSR could not admit to serious design flaws but it is quite clear that following Chernobly significant changes occurred including cancellation of all new reactors of this design, and major operational changes to the rest which is why those RMBK reactors left did not have problems. Hence the initial findings it was down to operator error. Dylatov however considers that not correct. He claims ( and argues with some persuasion ) that his trial was in reality a show trial.

Later investigations, after the collapse of the USSR, when a lot more information became available, confirmed much about the inherent design flaws, but also errors in how the the experiment was performed, and There are genuine questions about the failure to get an official approval from the minstry which might have lead to a better risk assessment and avoided the problems that occurred.

I btw used to have a very good insight in to how the USSR functioned from my late father in law who was in government under Mr Gorbachev and that drunk, Yeltsin. He was brought in from Academia where he was a full professor in his field and head not just of a department but an entire school. In his government role, and it was a top political appointment, not civil service, he was sufficiently senior that if he traveled overseas on state business he would have courtesy meetings with heads of government, eg the prime minister of India, though working meetings with others. In his field he was in complete charge throughout the USSR, answerable to only his minister and Mr Gorbachev. He survived the collapse of the USSR and retained his position but only for Russia. He did not like the new leadership and how assets fell into the hands if gangsters, who in many cases were ex KGB, and went back to his Academic role.

He considered Putin as an arriviste thug.
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Re: Chernobyl

Postby Robin Hood » Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:16 am

Londonrake wrote:
Robin Hood wrote:Thank you both for the first hand information. I now know more than I did at the beginning of the week. :wink:


Wow! That's gotta be a first. PR? :wink:


I will always give my appreciation and credit to those that know what they are talking about. That is why you and the Koala have never been on that list! :roll:
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Re: Chernobyl

Postby Londonrake » Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:46 am

Robin Hood wrote:I will always give my appreciation and credit to those that know what they are talking about. That is why you and the Koala have never been on that list! :roll:


That seems harsh, considering all the times I've given you credit for your incisive revelations and balanced "outside the box" :lol: views. Be honest though (go on :wink: ). The only (very rare) times you tend to get into the credit and appreciation zone is usually when somebody is posting something that supports your points of view.

I do recall, that at some time in the past STUD, having gone down the same old route as so many, decided to give up on you. "Discourse obviously being pointless". Very astute then and a man with a commendably forgiving nature.

supporttheunderdog wrote:He considered Putin as an arriviste thug.


My respects to your late Father-in-Law. Obviously a person of good judgement and clearly someone who was in a position to very much "know what he was talking about". That won't cut any ice with our resident Trollski though. A man with a 100% record when it comes to Putin adoration and Kremlin useful idiocy. In his case you will invariably find that personal experience only matters when it's his. Anyone else's, even that acquired over a life-time, will always be trumped by his "research". :wink:
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Re: Chernobyl

Postby Robin Hood » Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:59 am

LR: Thank you for your usual contribution ...... I think most forum readers get your message! You don’t like me .... well tough shit ..... wind your neck in and get off my back, you make it very obvious you have a serious obsessive mental hang up.


STUD:
Apart from disagreeing on Putin, I am sure your late FiL and I would have been able to hold a sensible conversation on a more common ground.

I never worked in the Nuclear industry but I did spend 18 months working as an engineer on the gas-recovery unit on the Joint European Torus project (JET) in Abbingdon in Oxfordshire. The place was full of top scientist in the field of nuclear fission which is of course very different from nuclear fusion. It has attempted to recreate the process carried out in The Centre of The Sun that produces endless energy .... still I believe an ongoing project.

It was an interesting time but I found it difficult to get my head around the way the scientist’s thought that what they were doing in the laboratories and workshops could just slip into an industrial process unit, which was what we were working on.

I found out that Getter Pumps and Sputter Pumps don’t have motors and cost an arm-and-a-leg! We were dealing with temperatures from those exceeding those on the surface of the Sun to as low as a few degrees K above absolute zero. We were using depleted Uranium to store Hydrogen and measured vacuum levels by counting the collision times between molecules. But a field that was far too complex for me to fully understand, coming from an industrial background.

I found the scientist to be very focused on their own particular field and had very little interest in any other. Mostly very nice people but often very remote and hard to have a conversation with ...... mainly because what they knew everything about ..... I knew nothing about. They are not very practical people when outside their field and could not understand why something they had built out of ‘string-and-sticky tape’ could not be just put on a plastic table, connected to a wall socket and to the process with plastic tubes and circlips!

It was not my cup of tea ...... so I left and went onto a project designing and building a plant in Thailand to produce Hydrogen peroxide. As well as being a bleaching agent, it was a component of rocket fuel and a very unpleasant chemical ...... looked like red frog’s spawn.

As for Putin? :roll: I know you don’t have much time for him but I still believe, going on his history, he has done a lot of good for the Russian people. His latest annual address to the National Assembly shows he is going to continue in that direction rather than spend money to counter a US arms race ...........

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/51271.htm

.............. a race Russia currently appears to be leading anyway in spite of reducing their defence budget.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/51269.htm
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Re: Chernobyl

Postby Londonrake » Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:51 pm

Robin Hood wrote:LR: Thank you for your usual contribution ...... I think most forum readers get your message! You don’t like me .... well tough shit ..... wind your neck in and get off my back, you make it very obvious you have a serious obsessive mental hang up.


That's remarkably perceptive of you Hood! Correct, I don't like you (on the net) - at all - for excellent reasons, and in that respect there's never been a shortage of company. Your toxic manner's resulted in you being kicked off forums FFS. :lol:

So, whilst able, I'll continue to highlight things like your hypocrisy (I'm spoilt for choice in that respect) and it's really more a case of that being .........................tough shit. :wink:
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Re: Chernobyl

Postby Londonrake » Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:15 pm



Information Clearing House.

Articles critical of:

Russia - zero
China - zero
Iran - zero
Syria - zero
North Korea - zero
Turkey - zero
Venezuela - zero.
The Palestinians - zero

Articles critical of the West and Israel:

Well, all of them actually.

Same goes for the likes of blacklistednews/Moon of Alabama and all the other "independent" sites where paranoid conspiracy theorists go to look for "the truth". :roll:

"confirmation bias
noun
the tendency to interpret new evidence as confirmation of one's existing beliefs or theories."
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