Cyprus-Forum.com

[kalamaras74]

http://www.translatum.gr/forum/index.ph ... 454.0.html

You are right.

Yunus could be a coincindence.


As for the ultranationalists' claim to the entirety of Cyprus, kusura bakma kocum. I am out of context, you are again right that no one of note really advocates this anymore. If I can forgive your perception that Enosis is still real then you may forgive me for operating on a dated quote from Dr. Kucuk:

From Halkin Sesi, August 17, 1954

"Cyprus, let it be remembered, was, until 1878, a part of the Turkish Empire. IN 1878 the island was ceded to Great Britain as a security again Russian threat. Great Britain too over Cyprus on the undertaking that she would hand her back to Turkey as soon as this threat was abated or receded. From 1878 until 1914 Great Britain ruled the island on trust for Turkey, but when Turkey joined forces with the Axis, Cyprus was annexed to the British empire.

There is no need to look into the legality or the legal effects of this annexation. Let us grant that it was legal and correct from all points of view. Nevertheless, having regard to the close association of the two countries (Britain-Turkey), the ever-increasing Soviet threat to humanity and world security and the moral side of the question, it should be abundantly clear to all intelligent men that Great Britain cannot consider the handing over of the government to any nation except with the full consent and approval of its formal owner- Turkey. Turkey was the undisputed owner of this 'house' just before Great Britain took it over on trust. I world events have ended that 'trust' during 1914-1918, subsequent events have revived it from all moral points of view. The position of world affiars today as far as they concern Great Britain and Turkey are the same as they were in 1878. There is the Russian pressure on Turkey coupled with the bonds of friendship and alliance between Turkey and Britain. The cause of ceding Cyprus to Britain is still continuing; the time to consider handing back Cyprus to its former owner may not have arrived. But if Great Britain is going to consider this enosis question at all or is going to quit the island she has a legal as well as a moral duty to call Turkey and hand Cyprus back to Turkey, and ask the Turkish government to deal with the Enosis problem which the tolerant and ill-advised British administration has fostered on the island. From a legal as well as a moral point of view, Turkey, as the initial owner of the island just before the British occupation, has a first option to Cyprus. The matter does not end there. From a worldwide political point of view as well as from geographical and strategical points of view Cyprus must be handed to Turkey if Great Britain is going to quit.

This has been the attitude of the Turkish government. They have never taken the campaign for enosis seriously because they believed that Great Britain's decision not to quit the island was an unassailable answer to the whole question; but they have made it emphatically clear that if Great Britain ever considers leaving Cyprus then the Turkish governmnent has a great interest in ownership of the island. The Turkish youth in Turkey, in fact, has grown up with the idea that as soon as Great Britain leaves the island, the island will automatically be taken over by the Turks. It must be clear to all concerned that Turkey cannot tolerate seeing one of her former islands, lying as it does only forty miles from her shores, handed over to a weak neighbor thousands [sic] of miles away, which is politically as well as financially on the verge of bankruptcy."

Another source of note:

http://www.hr-action.org/chr/Tpolicy.html


If not a formal possession of Turkey, I think Turkey thinks nowadays that Cyprus should cooperate with whatever they put forward. After all, it is only forty miles from its tender underbelly.

[Rahmi]

Turkey's primary concern has always been the security of the TC population on the island. Turkey has renounced its territorial demands on the island with the 1960 constitution.

It was Greece which tried to annex the island with a coup in 1974, after a long campaign of prosecution against Turks, perpetrated by EOKA, and widely supported by the GC population.

The reason why Turkish soldiers are on the island is that the RoC, instead of defending and securing the basic rights of TC's, became the means of ethnic discrimination and terror against its own citizens.

kalamaras 74
If not a formal possession of Turkey, I think Turkey thinks nowadays that Cyprus should cooperate with whatever they put forward. After all, it is only forty miles from its tender underbelly.

It is a pity that for some GC's respecting TC's right to live is too much of a demand. They want to be left free in their island to decide whether they want TC's dead, alive or away.

[cypezokyli]

rahmi, the gcs did not support eoka b.
but what i am furious with them is that they choose the silence attitude. thats why i believe the whole community should apologise for the wrong doings. silence is also guilt as far as i am concerned... that holds also for the tcs ofcource

and it is true on the political level our leadearship should have done much more for the tcs, before the situation got out of hand. they are more to blame than the silent gcs imho.

on the other hand, and assuming that the only purpose was to safeguard the tcs... the turkish "solution" was not the best either, especially considering the humanitarian cost it caused

[kalamaras74]

I posted the Kucuk article to show that some people believed Cyprus was rightfully Turkish. The link following it was to show that Turkey continued to have a strategic interest in Cyprus. This continued after independence as well. I can post a page from a military instructional manual for Turkish cadets that refers to Cyprus as a Turkish possession.

At the mere suggestion of any strategic motives Turkey may have in staying in Northern Cyprus, I am accused of advocating, along with all Greek Cypriots, the elimination of the Turkish Cypriot community. It just goes to show how weak the case is for the current "solution" is that they need to invoke a defunct movement (EOKA-B and Enosis) to justify Turkey's current policy.

Brilliant Rahmi. Just call me Pol Pot from now on.

[Rahmi]

First, kalamaras, if your point was merely that Turkey has strategic interests in the island, then yes I misunderstood you and I apologize for blaming you for advocating the elimination of the TC population.

It is true that Turkey's national security concerns make her sensitive to developments in Cyprus. Just like Turkey guarantees the TC's right to live in Cyprus, TC's in Cyprus make sure that Cyprus will not become a threat for Turkey.

As to any territorial demands, only a marginal minority of Turks think that Cyprus shall belong to Turkey, moreover a united Cyprus where TC's safety is guaranteed would be supported and respected by an overwhelming majority.

Second, cypezokyli, for my part I am as furious with Turks that claim that the whole of Cyprus is Turkish, or that the sufferings of GC's that the intervention or the current situation has caused can be justified by what happened to TCs before 1974.

I think the situation in 1974 necessiated an intervention from outside, simply because RoC, after the attempted coup, became incapable to defend TCs lives. Though I do not support the way it was executed, nor the attitude towards the GC population. Turks went there to stop ethnic prosecution, it is a shame that we ended up with an island seperated by ethnicity.

[kalamaras74]

Thanks Rahmi. That is something everyone can agree with actually. I am really amazed at how civil and cool headed people on this forum are. Really.

I am not a Cypriot but a kalamara.

The Greek side should not be afraid to acknowledge the suffering of the Turkish side. Glossing it over only hurts the GC case.

I can appreciate Rahmi's logic. However, I do think the major stumbling block to a solution is Turkey's future role there.

[Lala_Mustafa_Pasha]

Kalamaris
I posted the Kucuk article to show that some people believed Cyprus was rightfully Turkish. The link following it was to show that Turkey continued to have a strategic interest in Cyprus. This continued after independence as well. I can post a page from a military instructional manual for Turkish cadets that refers to Cyprus as a Turkish possession.

You really are a DISTURBED man, this nonsense is hilarious, so because Dr Kucuk stated a Historical fact were all condemned for some weird crime that's Illegal only according to your books.

Common now, even you should realise Cyprus was Turkish untill the Britts decided never to leave and the "rent" turned into an "occupation".

So in these times of course Cyprus should belong to Turkey.

But thats neither here nor there, we have Turkish Cyprus, were happy with this, we have our side you have yours, there is no logical reason for us to into a land that has NO Turks, it would just be a wasted journy, its clear you have no millitary experience or any common knowledge, I mean I know Greeks have made some ridiculously bad Millitary decisions in the past but your taking it a bit far

TRNC-KKTC is Turk and its gonna stay Turk as the people who live here are Turk, now stop being greedy and happy with what you've got, as you know the greedy kid ends up loosing all his sweets one day


So sleep safely at night, knowing we have no plans of entering Greek Cyprus but if you have any plans of entering Turkish Cpyrus you will suffer a more crushing and humilliating defeat than 1974, now CHILL OUT.

Greeks are often stereotyped for Paranoia and Xenophobia, I just thought it was a load of nonsense but I can see why this stereotype may have arrised with people like you Kala.

Kala
I can appreciate Rahmi's logic. However, I do think the major stumbling block to a solution is Turkey's future role there

This must be the new argument around town lol.

That somehow, Turks in Turkey are our enemies and their not real Turks there just imposters pretending to be our friends when our real buddies are the Greeks who are our real people on the other side of the border comon now, a baby can see the flaw of this argument.

Greeks cannot do anything to Turkiye and so in an act of desperation some have attempted to turn us against our own people I mean this is really hilarious.

Turk from Turkey, Turk from Cyprus, Turk from Bulgaria, Turk from Azerbaycan, Turk from Iran, Turk from Turkmenista, Turk from Bosnia, Turk from Ozbekistan, Turk from Germany, Turk from LONDON, Turk from Kazakhistan, Turk from Eastern Turkestan etc etc etc you really think I differentiate

To me thats my NATION, the TURK Nation, TURK MILLET, we all speak TURKCE, we are all MUSLUMAN, we all feel TURK, we have the same Roots, historical ties, cultural ties and a close bond.

On the other hand, Greeks speak Greek (which I cannot at all understand) they are Christian, they have different roots, historical ties, cultures etc etc

Ie, you are Greek, I am Turk, we are not the same and never will be and I will never ever ever ever see you as my people and hate TUrks lol, its the most stupid, dumb, un-logical argument I've ever come across in my life.

I dont think Eoka or the Greek Junta were TUrkish, I dont see my Turkish Army attacking innocent Turks and trying to eliminate Turks off the Island, why would that be ? I thought theyre are real enemy.

Common now, if your gonna come off with arguments your gonna have to be more convincing than this man jeez.

[TurkCyp1]

Pasha, All the words you say! I can only say this;

INSALLAH! INSALLAH!

A question to all my Greek Cypriot compatriots, were you ever told about the horrible things the Turkish cypriots suffered under the BLOOD THIRSTY MAKARIOS REGIME, AS WELL AS EOKA?
If you have, please tell me cause im curious! If you believe nothing happened, then I would say go slap your elders and MAKE them tell you the truth!

[kalamaras74]

I dont see my Turkish Army attacking innocent Turks and trying to eliminate Turks off the Island

No, but I see ethnic cleansing of the north and rap sheets of attrocities from 1974. I do not need to slap the Cypriot elders as the Turkish army has already done so.

How disturbed it is indeed to invoke God in your crusade of hate.

[Lala_Mustafa_Pasha]

Kalamaris
No, but I see ethnic cleansing of the north and rap sheets of attrocities from 1974. I do not need to slap the Cypriot elders as the Turkish army has already done so.

Well, as I said,

I dont see my Turkish Army attacking innocent Turks and trying to eliminate Turks off the Island

Oh and we dont have a policy to eliminate Greeks off the Island either, we just re-located you for your own safety and protection among YOUR own Greek people.

Now, let us imagine that Greeks possesed the might and strength of the Turkish Army at the time of Enosis and Eoka, WOULD THERE BE A SINGLE TURK LEFT IN THE ISLAND???

I mean count your blessings my friend, if we had Samson and Makarious types on the Island THERE WOULDN'T BE 1 INCH OF GREEK SOIL ON CYPRUS, have DEEP thought about that and realise just how lucky you are that the Turkish Millitary is so noble, disciplined and non-Genocidal in its behavious compared to Greek Actions against our Innocent people.

Kalamaris
How disturbed it is indeed to invoke God in your crusade of hate.

The Turkish Millitary didnt attack calling a Jihad now did it.

Lets not forget What Mr Makarious was o Holy man and how the Greek Cypriot Church told its people voting to live with Turks is like GOING TO HELL