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Assange ..... Justice? ... Really?

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Assange ..... Justice? ... Really?

Postby Robin Hood » Fri Feb 28, 2020 7:56 am

If ever there was justification for televising high profile trials/hearings this has to be it! So far it appears to be little more than a Kangaroo Court with a preconceived outcome. Even the prosecution is coming down on Assanges side!

Murray has been in Court all four days of the hearing so far and although the main arguments are being covered in the MSM the other incidents are not ...... because, as you can see from the following, it would take up too much space to give the true picture of events. It is an eye opener and shows that justice is neither fair or impartial ...... the Judge is clearly biased! I thought Judges were supposed to be neutral ............... if you think Courts are all about the Truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth and based on evidence...... think again!

Murrays articles describe not only the process but the antics of the Judge who (IMO) really should be removed because of obvious bias ............. Murray clearly is 'Our man in the Public Gallery' . :wink:

https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2020/02/your-man-in-the-public-gallery-assange-hearing-day-1/

https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2020/02/your-man-in-the-public-gallery-assange-hearing-day-2/

https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2020/02/your-man-in-the-public-gallery-the-assange-hearing-day-3/
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Re: Assange ..... Justice? ... Really?

Postby Paphitis » Fri Feb 28, 2020 12:59 pm

Sorry but it isn't Judge Judy or some kind of show.

To have a fair trial, there should probably be a media black out because of the high profile nature of the case.

In Australia, when Cardinal Pell was on trial, media were not allowed in the courts, or report on anything about the case other than Pell is appearing in court.

That was done to ensure that the Jury wasn't exposed to any media hype which could sway their judgement one way or another.

I think the it is fair enough too in order to have the fairest possible judgment.

In the UK, there is a multiple appeal process. Therefore, if the defendant feels it is appropriate, they are able to appeal any judgment and go to a higher court.

But at the end of the day, Assange should be extradited to either the USA. He has violated some very serious laws by publishing many State Secrets.
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Re: Assange ..... Justice? ... Really?

Postby Robin Hood » Fri Feb 28, 2020 5:41 pm

Paphitis wrote:
Sorry but it isn't Judge Judy or some kind of show.

Going by her comments and performance so far ....... Judge Judy would be fair comparison. :wink:

To have a fair trial, there should probably be a media black out because of the high profile nature of the case.

So a hearing conducted in secret by the State with the people not told the full story and the accused refused proper access to his lawyers and you think that is the best way to get a fair hearing?

In Australia, when Cardinal Pell was on trial, media were not allowed in the courts, or report on anything about the case other than Pell is appearing in court.

That was done to ensure that the Jury wasn't exposed to any media hype which could sway their judgement one way or another.

In Assanges case, there is no jury it is not a trial it is a hearing on whether to extradite him on political charges. The charges being political have been confirmed.

I think the it is fair enough too in order to have the fairest possible judgment.

A fair Judgement? How can it be fair if the Judge, who is supposed to be impartial and is there normally to ensure compliance with the Law, not the evidence of the offence and is very clearly demonstrating a strong bias against the accused and there is no Jury to judge the evidence?

In the UK, there is a multiple appeal process. Therefore, if the defendant feels it is appropriate, they are able to appeal any judgment and go to a higher court.

As far as I know there is no appeal against the outcome of the hearing. He has committed no crime in the UK for which he can be tried. He will be tried in the US for espionage, which is a political crime, but more so for exposing a whole host of US war crimes and State secrets they didn't want exposed because they had broken International Law. So far not a single person has been tried for any of the exposed and proven crimes.

But at the end of the day, Assange should be extradited to either the USA. He has violated some very serious laws by publishing many State Secrets.

Whatever he has done is only punishable in the US, he did not break UK Law. The hearing is to determine whether his extradition is legal! If you had read Murrays daily reports you would have ben aware of that.



To save you the trouble of actually reading the links, I post a few salient points .....................my high-lights:

Edward Fitzgerald (defence) then arose to make the opening statement for the defence. He started by stating that the motive for the prosecution was entirely political, and that political offences were specifically excluded under article 4.1 of the UK/US extradition treaty.


On abuse of process, Fitzgerald referred to evidence presented to the Spanish criminal courts that the CIA had commissioned a Spanish security company to spy on Julian Assange in the Embassy, and that this spying specifically included surveillance of Assange’s privileged meetings with his lawyers to discuss extradition. For the state trying to extradite to spy on the defendant’s client-lawyer consultations is in itself grounds to dismiss the case.


Lastly it was untrue that Wikileaks had initiated publication of unredacted names of informants, as other media organisations had been responsible for this first.


The bulk of Summers’ argument went to refuting behaviour 3), putting lives at risk. This was only claimed in relation to materials a) and d). Summers described at great length the efforts of Wikileaks with media partners over more than a year to set up a massive redaction campaign on the cables. He explained that the unredacted cables only became available after Luke Harding and David Leigh of the Guardian published the password to the cache as the heading to Chapter XI of their book Wikileaks, published in February 2011.

Nobody had put 2 and 2 together on this password until the German publication Der Freitag had done so and announced it had the unredacted cables in August 2011. Summers then gave the most powerful arguments of the day.

The US government had been actively participating in the redaction exercise on the cables. They therefore knew the allegations of reckless publication to be untrue.

Once Der Freitag announced they had the unredacted materials, It was a very striking moment.Julian Assange and Sara Harrison instantly telephoned the White House, State Department and US Embassy to warn them named sources may be put at risk. Summers read from the transcripts of telephone conversations as Assange and Harrison attempted to convince US officials of the urgency of enabling source protection procedures – and expressed their bafflement as officials stonewalled them. This evidence utterly undermined the US government’s case and proved bad faith in omitting extremely relevant fact.


I would suggest that the above shines a somewhat different light on the events and to the direction the MSM have taken so far.

Shouldn't the Guardian journalists mentioned and the Guardian itself be charged, seeing as they were the ones that committed the greater crime ? :roll:
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Re: Assange ..... Justice? ... Really?

Postby Paphitis » Sat Feb 29, 2020 6:33 am

Now apart from the first sentence I think i got up to "to save you the trouble of reading my links (which I don't do anyway) I decided to post some" ....I started to dose off at that point and my vision started to blur so TLDR :lol:

Apart from having an issue with the links you use, I also have a problem with different coloured fonts. Reminds me of a QRH Manual and I get severe flashbacks. :lol:

You really should have saved yourself the trouble.

Assange will receive a fair trial. He is in the UK for crying out loud and the UK will not extradite him to the USA if he was going to be mistreated or given the death penalty or given an unfair trial.

As long as the USA comply with all their treaty obligations and that there is a legal process for it under the bilateral terms between the USA and UK, then in all likelihood he will be extradited to face a US Jury.

Apart from that, the individual is also an Australian Citizen so Australia will not be happy if he was just handed over without proper due process from the Brits and Americans. However they do recognize that he has been accused of violating some serious laws not just in America but also in Australia because he has also released some Australian State Secrets. The minimum penalty is 7 years.

There is nothing at all you or I can do about it. He has outstanding warrants and now a long and drawn out trial will likely proceed where all evidence will be addressed.

he did make his own bed in all this. What he did was not journalism. There are no whistle blower laws when it comes to this stuff.

The law is black and white and is unyielding.
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Re: Assange ..... Justice? ... Really?

Postby Robin Hood » Sat Feb 29, 2020 8:13 am

Paphitis wrote:Now apart from the first sentence I think i got up to "to save you the trouble of reading my links (which I don't do anyway) I decided to post some" ....I started to dose off at that point and my vision started to blur so TLDR :lol:

Apart from having an issue with the links you use, I also have a problem with different coloured fonts. Reminds me of a QRH Manual and I get severe flashbacks. :lol:

You really should have saved yourself the trouble.

Assange will receive a fair trial. He is in the UK for crying out loud and the UK will not extradite him to the USA if he was going to be mistreated or given the death penalty or given an unfair trial.

As long as the USA comply with all their treaty obligations and that there is a legal process for it under the bilateral terms between the USA and UK, then in all likelihood he will be extradited to face a US Jury.

Apart from that, the individual is also an Australian Citizen so Australia will not be happy if he was just handed over without proper due process from the Brits and Americans. However they do recognize that he has been accused of violating some serious laws not just in America but also in Australia because he has also released some Australian State Secrets. The minimum penalty is 7 years.

There is nothing at all you or I can do about it. He has outstanding warrants and now a long and drawn out trial will likely proceed where all evidence will be addressed.

he did make his own bed in all this. What he did was not journalism. There are no whistle blower laws when it comes to this stuff.

The law is black and white and is unyielding.


I suppose if you are too bored to read links provided to present you with some facts so, that as a reader, you get the bigger picture, it is no wonder you are so ignorant and ill informed! But all you have ever needed is your opinion, on any subject, so you clearly don't need facts. :roll:

And a ....TLDR .... coming from you is laughable! :lol: :lol: :lol:

You use a thread as a window into your personal ambitions, wealth and lifestyle and can write as much as I can on a researched subject ..... but yours is all about YOU!

------------------------------------------------

Back to poor old Assange! For others who may be interested in how the process works regarding extradition for political reasons and the last days proceedings, I post the latest from Craig Murray ..... 'Our man in the Court Room': (Craig Murray as an ex-UK Ambassador and senior civil servant in the Foreign Office, has been involved directly in the formation of 'Treaties' with other countries, so he speaks from a position of knowledge of the process.)

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/53049.htm

The Court has been adjourned until 18th May.
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Re: Assange ..... Justice? ... Really?

Postby Paphitis » Sat Feb 29, 2020 9:05 am

Robin Hood wrote:
Paphitis wrote:Now apart from the first sentence I think i got up to "to save you the trouble of reading my links (which I don't do anyway) I decided to post some" ....I started to dose off at that point and my vision started to blur so TLDR :lol:

Apart from having an issue with the links you use, I also have a problem with different coloured fonts. Reminds me of a QRH Manual and I get severe flashbacks. :lol:

You really should have saved yourself the trouble.

Assange will receive a fair trial. He is in the UK for crying out loud and the UK will not extradite him to the USA if he was going to be mistreated or given the death penalty or given an unfair trial.

As long as the USA comply with all their treaty obligations and that there is a legal process for it under the bilateral terms between the USA and UK, then in all likelihood he will be extradited to face a US Jury.

Apart from that, the individual is also an Australian Citizen so Australia will not be happy if he was just handed over without proper due process from the Brits and Americans. However they do recognize that he has been accused of violating some serious laws not just in America but also in Australia because he has also released some Australian State Secrets. The minimum penalty is 7 years.

There is nothing at all you or I can do about it. He has outstanding warrants and now a long and drawn out trial will likely proceed where all evidence will be addressed.

he did make his own bed in all this. What he did was not journalism. There are no whistle blower laws when it comes to this stuff.

The law is black and white and is unyielding.


I suppose if you are too bored to read links provided to present you with some facts so, that as a reader, you get the bigger picture, it is no wonder you are so ignorant and ill informed! But all you have ever needed is your opinion, on any subject, so you clearly don't need facts. :roll:

And a ....TLDR .... coming from you is laughable! :lol: :lol: :lol:

You use a thread as a window into your personal ambitions, wealth and lifestyle and can write as much as I can on a researched subject ..... but yours is all about YOU!

------------------------------------------------

Back to poor old Assange! For others who may be interested in how the process works regarding extradition for political reasons and the last days proceedings, I post the latest from Craig Murray ..... 'Our man in the Court Room': (Craig Murray as an ex-UK Ambassador and senior civil servant in the Foreign Office, has been involved directly in the formation of 'Treaties' with other countries, so he speaks from a position of knowledge of the process.)

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/53049.htm

The Court has been adjourned until 18th May.


Facts? Firstly, you provided no links but I will have you know I am intelligent enough to find the links you use.

I just couldn't be bothered, and went on your past record of using links from those 2 Greek and Cypriot imbeciles from Duran, or Moonalamba or perhaps some links from one of the Russian mouthpieces from the St Petersburgh Troll Factory.

And of course, they are all factual, but the UK or US Justice Systems can't be trusted to afford someone a proper and fair trial. Do you understand the fact that the USA for instance has a Bill of Rights. Everything enshrined in black and white and under the Federal Court System. Not many countries have that. It's one of the only countries that actually also enshrines "freedom of the Press" under this Bill of Rights, but the Americans have already said that Assange doesn't qualify under these laws as far as they are concerned. No one does when it comes to State Secrets.

But fear not. Soon Assange will be subject to one of the best legal and justice systems on the planet. I dare say, far more superior and fair than Russia's but of course as I said, you will beg to differ in preference of Russia, Syria, North Korea, China and so on. Did I leave anyone out? :lol:

Oh and from the corner of my eye, I just noticed a link from Information Discount Clearance. Why am I not surprised? :?
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Re: Assange ..... Justice? ... Really?

Postby Robin Hood » Mon Mar 02, 2020 4:58 pm

Paphitis: I will not reply to your post but you appear to be of the opinion that Assange is getting just what he deserves? A common view if you only rely on the MSM for opinion. Personally .... I don't like him very much as a person but I think he has done what he did for the right reasons and admire him for that alone. A real David and Golliath situation! :roll:

So let me ask you a purely hypothetical question?

Q. By virtue of your job you found out, initially by accident and then by more investigation, that your employer was breaking the law and keeping it all hidden away. Let’s be silly and say you found out he was using second hand tyres and spares from the local flea market? You realised this was putting your aeroplane in danger and risking your life as well as the lives of your passengers.

What would you do? :?:

A) Ignore it and look for another job as a pilot before you became a ‘accident statistic’ ?

B) Go to your line Manager, or maybe The Executive management directly with your evidence and express your concerns ?

C) Go directly to The Aviation Authority with your evidence and findings ?

D) Pass the evidence to a reliable contact in journalism that you would trust and who was in a position to expose the crimes but at the same time was able to keep your name out of it ?


If you chose A) then it does not say much for your respect for the Law or the health and safety of others.

Either B) or C) would expose you as a brave individual who was prepared to face-off with The Company (any Company) to serve your conscience and your indignation when you felt your employers are doing something you believed was wrong. This of course would make you a marked man in the 'industry' with a reputation for poking your nose into matters that should not concern you and then making trouble. Thus your reputation would precede you when you put in for promotion or tried to get another job.

Now D) would allow you to serve your conscience without actually putting yourself (and indirectly your family) in the firing line, as your contact would take the flak, present the evidence but keep his mouth shut as to his source(s). You would now be a whistle blower but for a very good reason. You would have revealed something that others should be aware of as it was proven to be illegal and was putting lives at risk. You had done what your conscience told you to do but without damaging your reputation or that of colleagues or family members.

Or some thing else? :?:
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Re: Assange ..... Justice? ... Really?

Postby Robin Hood » Mon Mar 02, 2020 6:18 pm

Update ……………….

ASSANGE EXTRADITION: The Armoured Glass Box is an Instrument of Torture

Judge Vanessa Baraitser had a hand-written judgement ready even before she heard the defence argument that Assange be allowed to leave his glass cage, as Craig Murray observed. By Craig Murray

In Thursday’s separate hearing on allowing Assange out of the armoured box to sit with his legal team, I witnessed directly that District Judge Vanessa Baraitser’s ruling against Assange was brought by her into court BEFORE she heard defence counsel put the arguments, and was delivered by her entirely unchanged.

Murray then goes on in the body of the article, to explain this in some detail ............

https://consortiumnews.com/2020/03/02/assange-extradition-the-armoured-glass-box-is-an-instrument-of-torture/


What's the betting that when the hearing resumes either Murray is moved so that he can't see what papers the woman is referring to or she will be a lot more careful about her actions? :wink:
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Re: Assange ..... Justice? ... Really?

Postby Paphitis » Tue Mar 03, 2020 12:33 am

Robin Hood wrote:Paphitis: I will not reply to your post but you appear to be of the opinion that Assange is getting just what he deserves? A common view if you only rely on the MSM for opinion. Personally .... I don't like him very much as a person but I think he has done what he did for the right reasons and admire him for that alone. A real David and Golliath situation! :roll:

So let me ask you a purely hypothetical question?

Q. By virtue of your job you found out, initially by accident and then by more investigation, that your employer was breaking the law and keeping it all hidden away. Let’s be silly and say you found out he was using second hand tyres and spares from the local flea market? You realised this was putting your aeroplane in danger and risking your life as well as the lives of your passengers.

What would you do? :?:

A) Ignore it and look for another job as a pilot before you became a ‘accident statistic’ ?

B) Go to your line Manager, or maybe The Executive management directly with your evidence and express your concerns ?

C) Go directly to The Aviation Authority with your evidence and findings ?

D) Pass the evidence to a reliable contact in journalism that you would trust and who was in a position to expose the crimes but at the same time was able to keep your name out of it ?


If you chose A) then it does not say much for your respect for the Law or the health and safety of others.

Either B) or C) would expose you as a brave individual who was prepared to face-off with The Company (any Company) to serve your conscience and your indignation when you felt your employers are doing something you believed was wrong. This of course would make you a marked man in the 'industry' with a reputation for poking your nose into matters that should not concern you and then making trouble. Thus your reputation would precede you when you put in for promotion or tried to get another job.

Now D) would allow you to serve your conscience without actually putting yourself (and indirectly your family) in the firing line, as your contact would take the flak, present the evidence but keep his mouth shut as to his source(s). You would now be a whistle blower but for a very good reason. You would have revealed something that others should be aware of as it was proven to be illegal and was putting lives at risk. You had done what your conscience told you to do but without damaging your reputation or that of colleagues or family members.

Or some thing else? :?:


NO one has the right to violate the State Secrets Act in any capacity or even be a whistle blower in any capacity.

Violating it is a Federal offense in USA and Australia, and actually borders onto espionage laws, and even treachery.

State Secrets Act is very black and white and there can only be zero tolerance.

Assange has sadly placed himself in a position where the authorities have no other choice but to make an example of him. he's basically cactus.

I don't believe he is going to escape the US Justice System and from there, he could be put away for anything up to 40 years.

I'm so sorry, but revealing even any illegal action by our military, State Agencies or even our Government in any matter related to defense or National Security is a very serious offense against the State which in the old days was even punishable by DEATH!

As a matter of fact, the Death Penalty is still on Australia's books under Martial Law.
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Re: Assange ..... Justice? ... Really?

Postby Kikapu » Tue Mar 03, 2020 1:16 am

State secrets act can be broken by any individual who feels compelled to reveal it if his conscious dictates it, however, breaking the law and his oath to retain such secrets confidential does have it’s penalties and one must be prepared to pay for it whatever the penalty may be. Going into such profession knowing ahead of time that it is a spying mission on citizens and foreign entities, one has the choice to remove themselves from that profession if they feel what they and their government are doing is wrong. Personally I admire those who follow their conscious and spill the beans, but I will admire them even more if they also stand and face the consequences for their actions.
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