erolz66 wrote:Paphitis wrote:So I'm waiting for the inevitable collapse of BTC. You can stake your bottom btc that it will happen. We just don't know when it will happen. Because it has been a meteoric rise, I anticipate a gigantic fall. Just don't have a clue when.
And some of us have been watching the cycles for years now. An 80% fall from a cycle high is normal with crypto to date, as is the subsequent rise again to new time highs. This is not a share in a company. How many companies have been through 6 cycles of boom and bust with each subsequent cycle an order of magnitude greater than the last. You probably look at charts over the lifetime of bitcoin and do not even see the cycles because the latest high is so big that it makes the previous ones look like blips. This is a shift akin to the industrial revolution but in the realm of finance. You still do not get it. You still think you know better from a position of almost total ignorance.
Paphitis wrote:managed funds go up and occasionally down. But much safer. We are all invested in managed funds here in Australia. The industry is quite developed here. We call it superannuation. Every family and person who has worked in Australia has one. I've NEVER seen one lose money. Like NEVER. Yes they can have their overnight falls. And a collapse could even mean a sizable drop of up to 20%. But over time, it just keeps going up and up. The average for the products I have selected is 11% per year. When I say average, its a 10 year average.
You also get tax breaks by adding more money into these managed funds by our Government. Only up to $25000 though. Which allows you to reduce your tax by a lot. Let's say you are on a marginal tax bracket of 30%, that's an extra $7500 in tax breaks every year on top of the profit. That encourages people top put money away in these funds which is as good as putting it in the bank.
You so want to sound smart don't you Paphitis. It's not working mate.
Paphitis wrote: just look at it as a gamble with only money amounts you are prepared to sacrifice and lose without crying or bashing your head against a wall.
You are 'telling me' stuff I have been saying for years. Still unable to hear though as ever. Only invest / gamble to the degree you understand it. You do not understand it to even 2 dollars let alone 5k - and that is akin to playing the lottery, not investing.
Paphitis wrote:So no! Cryptos will never replace this form of investing. They are 2 different things.
You were the one that first compared crypto to manged funds and started waffling on about managed funds in the first place and when I pointed out they are entirely different you come back with 'they are 2 different things'. The first ETF for ether just went live a few weeks ago. Bitcoin will not be far behind. There are fully regulated futures markets for both already. You just do not get it nor can you have any hope too when you think you already know everything without having to put any effort in to learn or ability to do so with an open mind once your gut has told what reality is.
No I look over the charts and different cycles. 1 day, 1 month, 3 months, 6 months, 12 months, to up to life cycle just out of interest. The life cycle chart of BTC makes very interesting viewing. Those lucky individuals who got on the ground floor and still hold BTC are extremely wealthy today.
In essence, the charts are indeed like company shares on a typical share market. What you describe is exactly what shares do. In the past I use to dabble in risky Penny stocks. But I got burnt. I now only do blue chips. What this means, is established big companies. Like Banks for instance. Rock solid. Quite safe. Generally they go up. Even year after year. Sometimes they even balloon into a bubble and I have seen managed funds go up by 22% in a year. But generally, after a bubble comes a big bust. Then they rise and rise again to new highs and new records over time and the cycle begins once again. Certainly managed funds are a lot more stress free and safer in my view.
But as I said. I now have a Coinbase account. Might take a dabble in it. See what happens. Wouldn’t mind a reccoendation from someone who has been watching the cycle over many years.
You may be right about not understanding it. I never claimed to fully understand it at all. I don’t know how to mine. And I really don’t know what controls the fluctuations. Unlike shares where I’ve been watching the markets for 20 years, and made money from it. I’m a lot more comfortable holding a portfolio of shares than I am with cryptos. They are solid assets. Holdings. I’m not really a share investor these days. I indirectly invest in them and I do that through a managed fund and I do put 50k away into our 2 families Government funds. Mine and my wife’s. Our money buys units into a fund worth x. The fund has a team of traders who buy stocks for us. In our case it’s 50% Australian and 50% American. On the ASX, Nasdaq and Dow. They are usually high end blue chip stocks. Banks, Property stocks, medical, Auto, Mining, Tech and things like that. If the holdings go up, our unit price goes up proportionally. So I don’t have to do a thing. It’s all done for us by professional fund traders.
5k isn’t a big deal. Years ago, I lost 50k overnight on a single company. 50k. Admittedly it was a mine start up doing some geo thermal electricity plant. The damn thing blew up. Investment gone.
At the time I had set up a trust. That trust made losses. But the fortunate thing for me is a bought a property and put it in that trust. A rental. The 50k in losses were carried over and I could claim my small rental profit for years against those losses. So no tax. So just by being smart and having good advice my 50k loss ended up being a 35k loss. Thanks to the tax laws.
Put it this way. If I lose 5k it means nothing to me. My biggest friggin issue is tax right now.
I pay someone a lot more more than 5k each year just to keep ahead of my tax obligations. And I pay a lot to structure myself with a mixture of discretionary trust companies and pty Ltd holding companies. It’s a headache. But I have a good advisor and accountant who tells me what I should be doing and when I should do it. Plus he keeps track of everything on a monthly basis and knows how well or bad I’m doing through a software called xero.
I owe the tax man a lot money through my discretionary trusts. That’s why I have discretionary trusts. I avoid or delay paying the taxes man. If a profit is materialised, I don’t pay the taxes if the funds stay in trust.
And you can use the money to buy something quick in order to have another deduction off the profit loss and even at times show a loss in that financial year.
Point is this. It’s very easy to lose money. Hard to make it. I recognise that I don’t know everything which is why I pay good money for advice. All tax deductible too and the advice has been wonderful on many levels. I fly planes. That’s what I’m good at. When you board a plane, you rely on guys like me doing our job well and safely. Like when you have surgery you rely on your surgeon knowing what they are doing. When it comes to finance, structure, tax I rely on my accountant and when it comes to investing I rely on financial advisors. Money well spent.
Abd since you know what you are doing, I am willing to rely on your information about cryptos since you been watching them for years you are bound to know a lot more than me.
