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Aus subs: oops!

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Aus subs: oops!

Postby Londonrake » Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:33 pm

"The costly refurbishment comes as the government confirms its new submarines won’t be fully combat-ready until 2054."

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/4 ... mfT5xvuRi8

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Re: Aus subs: oops!

Postby Lordo » Tue Jun 15, 2021 8:20 pm

You could not make it up.

Speaking exclusively to The News, Admiral Lord Alan West said the new 65,000-tonnes Queen Elizabeth-class behemoths could deploy without any of its F-35B Lightning II jets.

https://www.portsmouth.co.uk/news/britains-new-aircraft-carriers-could-go-war-without-any-jets-1270232
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Re: Aus subs: oops!

Postby Paphitis » Wed Jun 16, 2021 1:38 am

Londonrake wrote:"The costly refurbishment comes as the government confirms its new submarines won’t be fully combat-ready until 2054."

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/4 ... mfT5xvuRi8

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First Barricuda enters service early 2030s. Last one will enter service in the 2050s.

That’s if they continue with the program.

There is a lot of speculation that they may scrap it and opt for the American Virginia Class at greater expense. The other consideration that will weigh into the decision is whether the boats will be built by The Australian Submarine Corporation in Adelaide, which I understand you are familiar with.

The reason, it’s easy to integrate US Weapons systems and US sensors in an off the shelf design. The difficulty with the French subs is that the French boats are specifically designed to operate US Weapons and Sensors which poses much difficulty and risk, as well as enormous expense as they are a new design.

As for Aircraft Carriers, we have 2 fully equipped, able to take F-35B but we are not using them as Aircraft Carriers atm. Ours double up as good LHDs right now but are operating as Helicopter Landing Docks.

The RAAF has initially ordered 100 F-35B and there are plans to buy another 30 or 40, some being F-35B. Unknown whether the pilots will be trained for carrier operations at this stage. But the Ships are fully equipped for it.
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Re: Aus subs: oops!

Postby Paphitis » Wed Jun 16, 2021 2:03 pm

Londonrake wrote:"The costly refurbishment comes as the government confirms its new submarines won’t be fully combat-ready until 2054."

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/4 ... mfT5xvuRi8

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Just to clarify on my earlier post.

There is speculation that it is going to be difficult to integrate US Weapons and Sensors in what is essentually the French Barricuda Class Submarine. Brilliant Submarines, but the French have their own weapons and sensors on their boats. The American Weapons and Sensors basically need a lot of design work, research and development to be fully operational and functioning.

If we opted for the French Weapons and Sensors to be installed and integrated, it would be much easier, but the RAN want the US Weapons and Sensors because that is what all our other ships have and because it's logistically much easier to operate and maintain.

Therefore, they are speculating whether or not they will scrap the Barricuda program and opt for an off the shelf solution from the US which has already done all the leg work. Or even go for the Japanese Subs.

But the situation is also extremely political. Because a key factor is that the boats must be built in Adelaide by the Australian Submarine Corporation, so that the expert workforce can be maintained and also to stimulate the Adelaide Economy. Thousands of jobs at stake here.

The Air Warfare Destroyers have been built, and now they want to build new Frigates over the next 2 and a bit decades, by which time they will start to think about replacing the AWDs with newer technology. It's mainly about sustaining the capability that has developed here in Adelaide since the construction of the Collins Class. The yards down there are definately world class.

It's considered to be a sovereign key objective of the Government. At the moment, all our ships and submarines are being built in Adelaide.

So yeh, the new project that is about to get underway (probably barricuda and 5th gen Frigate program) isn't going to be small. It's massive, and never before been undertaken on such a scale. So they do have PLENTY of issues to sort out. The same thing was happening when they were planning for the Collins Class and the Air warfare Destroyers. The Air warfare Destroyers are now fully operational and that was a huge achievment. Basically a Spanish Navantia design with again US Weapons and Sensors.

So it's not just about having new boats. A key aspect here is developing our defence Industry capabilities and sustaining them for the next 50 years and beyond. This to keep those skilled workers employed and maintaining this capability to build our own subs , frigates and destroyers in the decades to come.

If they cancel the French Contract, Australia is liable for some billions (I forget how much) to the French. The Government doesn't care. Money on tap. And the other key contenders are the American Virginia Class and Japanese Soryu Class.
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Re: Aus subs: oops!

Postby Paphitis » Wed Jun 16, 2021 2:16 pm

Londonrake wrote:"The costly refurbishment comes as the government confirms its new submarines won’t be fully combat-ready until 2054."

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/4 ... mfT5xvuRi8

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RAAF Edinburgh has changed a lot too. Americans and French contractorsd are all over the joint, in the City as they have their own buildings and also down the docks. the money being spent down here on defence is mind boggling at the moment.

And everyone is here to cash in on the gracy train.

American companies, French Companies, British Companies, it's literally insane.

New Aprons being built and a dedicated new Apron and maintenance facility for the new Surveillance Aircraft (not the Poseidons which are parked at HMOF) but one dedicated for the new Surveillance Aircraft and another for what they reckon will be the Global Hawk Drone.

One landed here 3 months ago (from America) and they blocked port wakefield Road (a major highway) so no one can see it or photograph it.
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