The Best Cyprus Community

Skip to content


'Anti-Islam' cartoons: Your views ?

Feel free to talk about anything that you want.

Postby stuff » Tue Feb 07, 2006 3:54 pm

anti-Jewish caricatures" appear daily in the Arab and Muslim press.Egyptian and Saudi leaders have ignored appeals from the U.S. and Jewish organizations to end incitement in their media.
Such incitement is routinely defended under the banner of press freedom.???? :shock:

maybe Denmark government wisely found a way to prove that the gap between civilazations and lack of dialogue is huge .And freedom of expression doesnt exist in the muslim world and its imcomprehensible .and ı wish muslim world saw the only way to prove you are right is not to ''shout loudest''and ı hope they are not easily provoked .or abused for provocation.
stuff
Contributor
Contributor
 
Posts: 379
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2005 11:27 pm

Postby BirKibrisli » Sat Feb 11, 2006 3:53 pm

There is another dimension to this which has not been mentioned.
It is actually blasphemous in Islam to depict the Prophet in any way,painting, drawing,cartoons,sculpture,whatever.
Knowing this the publication could only be a provocation for fundamentalists.I am pretty sure the editors would've known this.
Freedom of speech is fine but people in responsible position should also respect people's religious sensibilities.Why poke a stick into a hornet's nest?I come from an Islamic background and I saw the cartoons.I don't thi nk they should've been published simply because they were not good enough :D It makes me think that there is a hidden agenda to bring about "The Clash of Civilisations"which is refusing to eventuate,despite the Iraq war.Dangerous games,indeed.
User avatar
BirKibrisli
Main Contributor
Main Contributor
 
Posts: 6162
Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2005 4:28 pm
Location: Australia

You know the tree by the fruits

Postby maewing » Wed Feb 15, 2006 12:31 pm

While I was at one time a Palestinian sympathizer and a believer in the Islamic rhetoric that it is a peaceful religion, the recent and historical record (extending back to its initial days when Islam was spread by the sword until today) is quite the contrary; this situation is no exception. Anyone who attempts to rationalize the killing of 14 people and the injury of countless others over a cartoon has serious problems--both with his heart and with his mind.

In any case, there is no freedom of speech or of good actions in Islam so why are we discussing it as an option? The Qu'ran tells them that if they do not like something, first change it with their hands (violence), then with their mouths, then with their hearts (forced marriage). This is no exception.

We know the quality of a tree by its fruits and a man's (or woman's) heart by his deeds.
maewing
Member
Member
 
Posts: 68
Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2006 2:27 pm
Location: Hong Kong

Re: You know the tree by the fruits

Postby Alexios » Wed Feb 15, 2006 12:48 pm

Does anybody remember what the Budhists reaction was worldwide when the Talibans brought down those wonderful statues of Budha in Afghanistan...?:)
Alexios
Contributor
Contributor
 
Posts: 336
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2005 12:07 pm

Postby cypezokyli » Wed Feb 15, 2006 12:54 pm

bir, i can understand that people can find the cartoons insulting.
but this not painting the prophet is kind of .... http://www.zombietime.com/mohammed_image_archive/

and for the clash of civilizations :
http://www.guardian.co.uk/arts/news/sto ... 08,00.html

http://portal.telegraph.co.uk/news/main ... right.html
its just what people do in europe as far as i understand.

and lets not forget...turkey has shown a difference :wink:
http://www.turkishdailynews.com.tr/arti ... wsid=35812

the only thing i do accept, is that at the times we live it would make more sense not to publish them. so i would go as far to disagree to a certain extent with the danish newspaper. but as soon people from other countries started demanding what should or shouldnot be published in europe i totally support the french and german journalists on the matter.
cypezokyli
Regular Contributor
Regular Contributor
 
Posts: 2563
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2005 6:11 pm
Location: deutschland

Postby Michael » Wed Feb 15, 2006 1:11 pm

"and lets not forget...turkey has shown a difference"
Why is that ? Do they allow publication of the cartoons? Comparing Turkey to a western democracy is laughable. Its as muslim reactionary as ever.
Michael
Contributor
Contributor
 
Posts: 256
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2006 1:59 pm

Re: You know the tree by the fruits

Postby BirKibrisli » Wed Feb 15, 2006 2:13 pm

Alexios wrote:Does anybody remember what the Budhists reaction was worldwide when the Talibans brought down those wonderful statues of Budha in Afghanistan...?:)


I don't remember their reaction,Alexios,but I wouldn't be surprised if they had a mass meditation and prayers :wink:
User avatar
BirKibrisli
Main Contributor
Main Contributor
 
Posts: 6162
Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2005 4:28 pm
Location: Australia

Postby BirKibrisli » Wed Feb 15, 2006 2:20 pm

cypezokyli wrote:bir, i can understand that people can find the cartoons insulting.
but this not painting the prophet is kind of .... http://www.zombietime.com/mohammed_image_archive/

and for the clash of civilizations :
http://www.guardian.co.uk/arts/news/sto ... 08,00.html

http://portal.telegraph.co.uk/news/main ... right.html
its just what people do in europe as far as i understand.

and lets not forget...turkey has shown a difference :wink:
http://www.turkishdailynews.com.tr/arti ... wsid=35812

the only thing i do accept, is that at the times we live it would make more sense not to publish them. so i would go as far to disagree to a certain extent with the danish newspaper. but as soon people from other countries started demanding what should or shouldnot be published in europe i totally support the french and german journalists on the matter.


I had no idea there were historical precedent,Cypezokyli.Thanks for those links.Some of them are very dubious though.Like BABY MUHAMMED
in his mother's arms with adoring fans everywhere.Muhammed was an ordinary man till his 40th Birthday or there abouts when he went to fast for 40 days in a cave and came back with the parts of the Koran,allegedly dictated by angel Gabriel.

Anyway,my point is why stick a stick in a hornets nest?
Some of these fanatics would kill for much less than this :roll:
User avatar
BirKibrisli
Main Contributor
Main Contributor
 
Posts: 6162
Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2005 4:28 pm
Location: Australia

Postby djtrax98 » Mon Feb 20, 2006 9:12 pm

I dont think that the riots over this cartoon are justified in any way shape or form.
I know its only a minority who are carrying these actions out but i will highlight my point in detail:
Christians, would NEVER fly jetliners into the side of populated landmarked towers with total disrespect for casulaties and lives that will be lost. Neither would they walk into a crowd anywhere and detonate themselves killing innocent people in the name of our holy father either.
My point? That Islam as a religion has failed to modernise its ideologies as has Christianity. Indeed throughout history this is the exact method that religions have managed to survive. Do not think that when you pick up a bible and read it, that what you are reading is the original manuscript?
Shoud you read the original manuscript you will indeed see that the 'bible' you have in your hands, is indeed one that has been modified several thousand times throughout history by scholars fo different time periods.FACT.
So my question is this. HOW CAN ISLAM JUSTIFY THE MURDER OF INNOCENT PEOPLE based on the actions of an elite few who maybe do oppose the teachings or criticise the prophet mohammed or persecute the people?
The difference between Christians and Muslims is this:
When the planes struck the WTC on 9/11 the world condemned the actions of AL QAEDA. NOT THE MUSLIM People or ISLAM. Educated people throughout the world will know that Muslim people are good god fearing kind and warm people, who due to their religion and they way it is portrayed by a few 'fools' suffer.
YET WE FORGAVE AND CONTINUED.
Yet when pctures of the prophet Mohammed was portrayed in an 'improper manner' WITH NO INTENDED ILL FEELINGS OR OFFENCE MEANT then all Muslims across the world roared up in an uprage destroying property and screaming for BLOOD.
My point? LEARN TO BE MORE TOLERANT AND DONT MAKE A MOUNTAIN OUT OF A MOLEHILL. You scream that as Muslims you are being persecuted.
CARRY ON IN THIS FASHION AND YOU WILL BE. For as Christians and all other religions will tell you, murder is foul.
YOU CANNOT HAVE YOUR CAKE AND EAT IT.
So my advice is simple. To all Muslims who have a problem with these cartoons. Deal with the problem in a civilised way as your prophet would want you to do and aim your troubles to the people who wrote the cartoons NOT to the Danish people. STOP BEING SO NARROW MINDED AND LOOKING FOR EXCUSES TO START UP AN UNNECESSARY WAR which is neither justified or called for and which you are bound to lose.
WALK AWAY and all will be forgotten. PEACE AND LOVE.
NOT BOMBS AND PLANES.
User avatar
djtrax98
Member
Member
 
Posts: 113
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2006 7:59 pm
Location: Ayia Napa

Postby maewing » Tue Feb 21, 2006 6:00 am

Dear djtrax98,

I agree with your comments, though I would say that it is not the non-traditional nature of Christianity versus the traditional nature of Islam that is the core problem. I believe it is the nature of the two religions themselves. While I think people are free to practice what they want and we should not judge, I can judge for myself that Islam is not for me largely because it has essentially the opposite beliefs of Christianity.

Orthodox Christianity (as opposed to Western Christianity) in fact, is very traditional--remaining unchanged in its traditions for 2000 years. Our belief is that the Christian's goal is to purify his/her heart (which can only be done by God's grace) so as to become gradually closer to God and worthy of heaven upon Judgment. This does not require modernism or anything--since hearts have been the same since man first walked the earth! The Church is not pacifist (you could defend your home, your family, your borders) yet it is not aggressive (it withdrew support of Milosevic and incurred his wrath as a result).

I say, that Islam has the opposite belief because purification of the heart, through the practice of virtues (love, patience, meekness, humility, etc.) by contrast, has no part in their beliefs--at least not from my read of the Q'uran and not from conversations with many of them. Certainly the Q'uran mentions that some of these (not humility or meekness) should exist, they are to be applied only to other Muslims. Christianity would see no value to only loving other Christians--you are charged with loving your enemies. Part of this is because, quite truthfully, we don't believe in the same god--if we did, they would accept Christ and the Scriptures and we would accept Muhammed and the Q'uran. This is evidenced by the results you mentioned in terms of violent history as well--the fruits of the two trees.

Secondly, the Christian God is a Father--warm, loving and forgiving, especially for the repentant. Their god is one that they seek only to not anger through incorrect action and there is no repentance. While the history of Orthodox Church fathers (ancient saints) is completely consistent--and we admit that some men and women reached, through God's grace, perfection while still on this earth--they (Muslims) do not believe in perfection (deification) and, apart from Muhammed, they believe no Muslim has deeper insight than themselves. Hence, it is a religion laden with pride and self-understanding and self-justification. One man's fateh is indeed, one man's fateh. For this reason Muslim clerics may diverge starkly on their opinions of what is appropriate Muslim behavior--some of which are offering rewards for the murder of these cartoonists and are terrorists themselves and some of which are condemning all of these actions.

Moreover, the Orthodox Church as a whole encourages and welcomes inquisitive criticism. If you disagree with the Scriptures, the Church fathers, anything, you are welcome to challenge it (non-violently) even in the face of a Patriarch himself. For this reason, there is an abundance of elders whom one can ask for spiritual advice. We all sin and are imperfect, we all have wavering faith because we are human--no matter what religion we practice. Christianity understands that a believer may need support in these times of weakness and confusion. At the same time, criticising Islam (even as we are doing here) and asking questions, can get you killed in most Muslim countries.

I say all this not to condemn the Muslims anymore that we see they are already condemned from their actions. While they may hate us, we can only pray for them.
maewing
Member
Member
 
Posts: 68
Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2006 2:27 pm
Location: Hong Kong

PreviousNext

Return to General Chat

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest