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"Supposing a Turk did this documentary" and democr

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"Supposing a Turk did this documentary" and democr

Postby metecyp » Wed Nov 03, 2004 9:25 pm

Supposing a Turk did this documentary
2004-11-02 | Afrika | Şener LEVENT (Açı)
About Angastiniyotis’ documentary on a massacre in the North…

Supposing a Turk did this documentary

Şener Levent (Açı)

According to news reports Angastiyotis who prepared a documentary on Murataga, Atlilar, Sandallar Massacre couldn’t get his work broadcast in the South as all the TV stations were refused to do so but BRT did so. Angastiyotis happened to be at this wife’s village the day the work was due to be put on by BRT.

He said he asked his relatives to redirect the TV aerial to the North “Not on your life” war the reaction of the aunt! What should we watch the TV of those dogs?” According to Angastiyotis the very same aunt was in tears within the minutes of the start of the film, on seeing the boys killed.

Angastiyotis says there’s a concerted pressure on him in the South, the media refusing the publication of his articles. “If the Administration goes on like this” he says “I’ll go and settle in TRNC”. “After all my family used to live in Magusa before 1974, I’ve had a lot of Turkish friends” adds Angastiyotis.

Angastiyotis is honest intellectual risking ostracism in his community. He has well aware of the fat that his people wouldn’t approve the work he was going to do and that he might even be facing some dangers.
But, he carried on as an intellectual to defy the views of the majority and risk even the danger of ostracism by his people to complete his work. What about the other side of the coin? Did the Turkish intellectual do the same?

Let’s think of a Turkish Cypriot doing what Angastiyotis has done?
What would happen? Nobody has ever tried, but supposing, he did. He shot a documentary showing massacres carried out by the Turks at Balikre and near the walls of Girne cemetery, what would happen?
Would Turkish Administration allow the broadcast? Turks work as BRT did Angastiyotis work amid the Cypriotturk saying, “I’d rather go and live in the South?”

Murataga, Atlilar and Sandallar massacre is not likely to be forgotten in Cyprus; neither the massacres of Ayvasil and Dohni. Pr their perpetrators ever pardoned.

There are a number of other massacres besides these that shouldn’t be forgotten. If a trial is in question they should all be inquired into and subject to trial. The matter is like a knife with too sharp edges.
It’s important to have an account of a massacre carried out by the Turks from Turkish point of view and the Greek ones from the Greek point of view. We have already a larger number of accounts from Turks detailing the Greek ones and Greek ones giving the Turkish ones.
After all blood is in the center of the official policies of both sides.

But, it’s not possible to agree either with Angastiyotis who says, “I’d rather go and settle in TRNC” or the Turks shows readiness to “go live in the South”, after such an experience.
Nobody would stop anymore from living either in the South or in the North provided they find it pleasant to do so. But they wouldn’t find what they want if they simple base their choice on the freedom of speaking about the Greek massacres in the North and the Turkish massacres in the South. It’s not heroic to speak about one after moving into another community.

What’s courage is raising one’s voice in one’s community against the wrong of his won people.

Antonis Angastiyotis succeeded in doing just this; whereas, among the community he is inclined to live, North Cyprus, nobody has yet had the courage even to try it.
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Postby metecyp » Wed Nov 03, 2004 9:30 pm

I put this article here to congratulate brave people like Angastiyotis. I'm also curious if there are forum members who still believe that there's such a great democracy in the south.
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Postby Piratis » Wed Nov 03, 2004 10:40 pm

I'm also curious if there are forum members who still believe that there's such a great democracy in the south.


What democracy has to do with this?

If you owned a TC TV station and I created a propaganda documentary that presented TCs as barbarians and murderers would you show it to your TC viewers that would probably get pissed off and never watch your channel again?

The owners of the channels choose not to show such things for obvious reasons unrelated with democracy. Even if we assume that this documentary was objective (I highly doubt since this person calls the occupied areas as "trnc"), then the channel that would broadcast it would loose half of its viewers and go bankrupt. Apart from democracy we also have capitalism (if thats good or bad is another story) and the channels show what their viewers want to watch and not what will make their viewers furious.

So this is really not a matter of democracy.


Also I don't agree that such kind of propaganda that promotes hate is a good thing. Personally I never watched a program that presented TCs in a very bad way (Turkey yes, but not TCs). If we are going to create such programs then the same documentary should everything that happened in an objective way and things should presented in such a way that will not promote hate.
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Postby mehmet » Thu Nov 04, 2004 12:36 am

Aren't there any state run tv stations that aren't run for profit in the south?
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Postby MicAtCyp » Thu Nov 04, 2004 1:00 am

Metecyp I ve read the atricle of Sener Levent today in Politis newspaper. Yet the message he tries to convey is not the same as yours. He conveys two messages.First that it is important that the GCs report theor oen crimes and the TCs theirs.
Second that in the free areas there is enough democracy to allow anyone do whatever he likes. In the occupied areas nobody could even think of doing the same. I can't comment further as it is already too late, and I am too busy lately.n Here is the essense of the article as I understood it.

It’s important to have an account of a massacre carried out by the Turks from Turkish point of view and the Greek ones from the Greek point of view. We have already a larger number of accounts from Turks detailing the Greek ones and Greek ones giving the Turkish ones.

Antonis Angastiyotis succeeded in doing just this; whereas, among the community he is inclined to live, North Cyprus, nobody has yet had the courage even to try it.
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Postby metecyp » Thu Nov 04, 2004 1:22 am

Piratis wrote:What democracy has to do with this?

You have a very simplistic view of democracy. For you, democracy is one man one vote and that's it. But when you talk about a democratic society, it's much more than one man one vote. It's the mentality of the society that determines if a society is democratic or not. A democratic society is the one that is open to different views. Differences are celebrated in democracies rather than supressed. Democratic people defend some other person's right to say whatever he/she wants to say even if they don't agree with that person's view.

You talk about democracy, human rights etc. for a solution but these are nothing but empty words on paper (like 1960 agreements) if people are not democratic and they don't respect the human rights.

This is a clear example of the nondemocratic mentality of the society (and hence that society's government) in the south. It has everything to do with democracy. It shows what kind of a democracy is waiting for me if I agree to live like a minority in the GC majority.
Piratis wrote:If you owned a TC TV station and I created a propaganda documentary that presented TCs as barbarians and murderers would you show it to your TC viewers that would probably get pissed off and never watch your channel again?

You jump to conclusions again. How do you know that this is indeed a propaganda movie without even watching it? Massacres did happen in Aloa, Maratha, Sandallar. TCs did not kill themselves. Don't you want to know about these events? I don't know you but I would like to know everything Turks and TCs did to GCs. I want to know the whole truth so I can form my ideas accordingly.
Piratis wrote:Even if we assume that this documentary was objective (I highly doubt since this person calls the occupied areas as "trnc"), then the channel that would broadcast it would loose half of its viewers and go bankrupt.

Doesn't this say something important about the society? If something is not propaganda and if something is not offensive, then why would it be a problem to show it on TV if you live in an open democratic society?
Apart from democracy we also have capitalism (if thats good or bad is another story) and the channels show what their viewers want to watch and not what will make their viewers furious.

True but channels also have an obligation to tell the truth to people (at least in democratic countries). I'm really amazed by how you don't find this troubling while claiming that you're such a democratic person.

I recently read a TC interviewing a GC that survived the incidents in Ashia (Pasakoy) in 1974. I didn't know about this before but now I do, and I want every TC to know about it so that we all realize how much we all sufferred. Don't you want GCs to learn about what happenned to TCs?
Also I don't agree that such kind of propaganda that promotes hate is a good thing. Personally I never watched a program that presented TCs in a very bad way (Turkey yes, but not TCs).

First, you don't know if this is propaganda. Second, bad incidents happenned in Cyprus and it was committed by TCs and GCs. So when you talk about these incidents (which I think we should) no matter how hard you try, some people will be labelled as bad. The important point is to realize that the existance of "bad" GCs and "bad" TCs does not mean that all GCs or TCs are bad. So as a TC, it's important for me to know that GCs sufferred in Ashia in the light of Sandallar, Maratha, etc. massacres and I think it's equally important for you to know about TC sufferrings in light of your own sufferring.
If we are going to create such programs then the same documentary should everything that happened in an objective way and things should presented in such a way that will not promote hate.

Promoting hate is the last thing we want. A bicommunal documentary documenting the summer of 1974 would be a wonderful project. But I don't think that you can label every GC documentary talking about TC sufferrings as propaganda (and vice versa of course).

As a side note, I watched Attila74 last year. I knew it was going to be one-sided but I still watched it to see the story from other's perspective and even though it was indeed one-sided, I still gained some insight from it. It's important to be able to see the other side's perspective.
Last edited by metecyp on Thu Nov 04, 2004 1:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby metecyp » Thu Nov 04, 2004 1:44 am

MicAtCyp wrote:It’s important to have an account of a massacre carried out by the Turks from Turkish point of view and the Greek ones from the Greek point of view. We have already a larger number of accounts from Turks detailing the Greek ones and Greek ones giving the Turkish ones.

Antonis Angastiyotis succeeded in doing just this; whereas, among the community he is inclined to live, North Cyprus, nobody has yet had the courage even to try it.

Yes, that's what Sener Levent tried to say and I agree with him. But this doesn't rule out what I said earlier. Sener Levent is not trying to say that there's perfect democracy in the south and dictatorship in the north. He's saying that both communities (TCs and GCs alike) do not tolerate to hear what they haven't been told all these years (undemocratic) and this GC guy tried to change this in his community with his documentary. But he failed because no TV accepted to show his documentary in his community. Now, he's telling the GC guy that it's not heroic to speak about one after moving into another community. In other words, he should still try to do this in his community rather than moving to the north. And he also sends a message to TCs that Angastiyotis at least tried to change his community but nobody ever tried that in the TC community yet. He's in a sense comparing something bad (Angastiyotis' failure in the south) to something worse (not even an attempt in the north).

Besides, it doesn't matter too much what Sener Levent tried to say. What matters is that in a democratic society people express their opinions freely but this guy was not even given the chance to express his opinions and this is a problem in a society that claims to be democratic.
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Postby Bananiot » Thu Nov 04, 2004 8:39 am

There is one TC reporter, her name is Sevkiul Ulantal (not sure if spelt right) who has written a number of informative articles on the atrocities committed by the nationalists of both communities.

One incident that stands out is the tragic story of Husein Akansoi from Maratha. His whole family was wiped out by the murdering fiends in July 1974. His mother, 5 brothers and sisters, his grandmother, both his unties, his unkle and 4 first cousins were slaughtered in cold blood.

What is really amazing is that Husein, who now lives in Kyrenia, has not become a nationalist animal. He has worked and is still actively working, with the progressive TC forces, for a solution to our problem.

Regarding Angastiniotis's documentary, I have heard that the state run CBC has asked to see a copy but has not promised to show it.
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Postby brother » Thu Nov 04, 2004 1:10 pm

I believe this is a brave man and we should all take example and show the truth like he has, maybe this will help us all understand that we are all the same and should console each other rather than point fingers at each other.

I WOULD LIKE TO GET A COPY OF THIS PROGRAM HAS ANYONE GOT IT , IF SO PLEASE CONTACT ME.
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Postby insan » Thu Nov 04, 2004 1:55 pm

Yeah... we need more Cypriots who have a brave heart and soul like Angastiyotis. Though a number of TCs, for example, Alpay durduran, Sevgul Uludag, Irkad, Ahmet An, A Hasan Tahsin, Sener Levent and a few others i can't remember their names now; written a lot about regarding the crimes committed by TCs and Turks from 1958 until now....


I'm planning to make a great documentary concerning Cyprus problem, its roots, neighbourhood and brotherhood of some Cypriots, hatred amongst some groups of Cypriots, violations and committed crimes, interviews with nationalists and extremists, interviews with collumnists and historians; psychologists as well... even with the high ranked Greek and Turkish soldiers of 1955-2004 period, plus with officials...
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