Cyprus-Forum.com

[-mikkie2-]

So what do you suggest we do?

Accept the plan as is? If we have the 'worst possible plan' from what we could have got should we just accept it anyway in the fear that we could get something much worse later on? What could be much worse than what we have now?

This is a test, and it is a test for both sides. It is a test of how willing Turkey is to become a European nation and it is a test of how much we want a solution to the problem. Turkey cannot hide behind the Annan plan and we cannot hide behind it either.

The conclusion I draw is that Turkey will be forced, sooner or later to sit down and discuss and negotiate a plan that is fair to all. I said that Turkey will get a yes in Decemebr. It will then negotiate a solution sometime in 2005 before accession negotiations begin. I guess time will tell if I am right or wrong, but to me that seems the most sensible outcome.

[Piratis]

Papadopoulos is doing what we, the majority that voted for him, want him to do. What we want from Papadopoulos is to try to bring an acceptable solution. If we wanted somebody to simply transmit the directives of the Americans to us we would have voted for Cleredes.

If Cleredes was giving promises to some foreigners behind our back thats his problem. Even when he was president all polls showed that Cypriots would not accept the plan as it is, and Cleredes knew it very well.

In any case, EU doesn't act on vague promises. The reason we got accepted is that Greece was very clear that no expansion could happen without Cyprus.

[Bananiot]

Accept the plan as it is? We have discussed this before and you know by views, why do you bring it up again? Its really pathetic to believe that Greece or Cyprus can hold Europe to ransom. I think we are about to learn our lesson the hard way.

[Piratis]

Its really pathetic to believe that Greece or Cyprus can hold Europe to ransom.

How exactly we do that????

[-mikkie2-]

I don't believe that we are holding Europe to ransom.

All we ask is to be treated as an equal partner in the EU.

That means our point of view needs to be respected.

[brother]

I have always told you guys tassos has no intention of uniting cyprus but to divide it for good, as for turkey, the day cyprus veto her E.U ambitions will be the day you veto all our security, as i always said the E.U is not a good defender and with all the big guns on turkeys side, things will only get worse.

[MicAtCyp]

Nevertheless, the international factor feels deceived by our government and Papadopoulos.

According to Euro MP Adamos Adamou interview published yesterday in Politis, there is only one person in the EU who says he is deceived.Verhoigen!

Of course Klerides made promises to the UN and EU.

Like that the stupid GC donkeys will accept just about anything, right? Well he was proved to be damn wrong!

So what do you suggest we do? Accept the plan as is?

Mikkie do you really beleive you will ever get an answer to any point from Bananiot? Didn't you notice that he never does? Ask him as many times as you wish to comment on the Anan Plan. He will always say we discussed this a hundred times in the past. Whereas he was not even a member in this forum when we were discussing it.

About the matter of Vetoing Turkey.The government made it crystal clear to the EU and the Minister of Exterior gave our position in writting to Brussels. If until 17 December Turkey does not recognise the RoC, does not lift her embargo on our ships and our airplanes, and there is no linking of her accession negotiations with the removal of all her troops from here, then the RoC will excercise her veto right.

[Bananiot]

Lies, more lies. He is worse than Papadopoulies. Mikkie asked me if I accept the plan as is. This is what I said in my reply:

"Accepting the plan as is, is another ploy employed by Papadopoulos when he wants to attack his political opponents. As is, the plan is dead and buried. It was rejected by a landslide. Akel, commanding almost 35% of the vote, said the plan offered the basis for a good and comprehensive solution provided certain changes are made regarding the security aspect and ways to implement it. Many voters from other parties, especially DISI, who rejected it in April, are ready to accept it in a new referendum, provided these changes are incorporated into the plan. Also, things have moved on since last April. More aspects of the plan may need to be discussed and some of these aspects may not be in our favour. Do not forget, the other side has interests too.

Papadopoulos does not want to hear about the plan. You said it yourself and I agreed with you. He wants the TC's to return to the RoC. This isn't just wishfull thinking but it's also dangerous because the more we delay the closer we get to partition. Since Papadopoulos is not stupid, I conclude that he prefers partition rather than any plan (does not matter how good it is) that bases the solution on bizonal, bicommunal federation. To me its plain obvious and I know many people who openly say this and I respect their view even if I disagree with it totally. At least they are honest about it".

I think I am entitled to say that I gave a very explicit answer to a very specific question.

[metecyp]

If until 17 December Turkey does not recognise the RoC, does not lift her embargo on our ships and our airplanes, and there is no linking of her accession negotiations with the removal of all her troops from here, then the RoC will excercise her veto right.

Ok, let's assume this is true. Let's assume that Turkey didn't do anything and the RoC exercised its veto right. Then what? What will be the next step in the peace process? Where do you think this will lead us?

[Piratis]

Accepting the plan as is, is another ploy employed by Papadopoulos when he wants to attack his political opponents.

So, Bananiot, if the plan came back as it is you would vote "no"?

The ones who are doing another ploy are those that for once more are lying to the people to steal their vote. DISI changed position 180 degrees just before the EU elections.

We all know that you, and the leadership of DISI would support a "yes" vote again even for the exact same plan.
Cleredes and DISI were telling us for months that they did not support the A plan as it is, and in the end they supported an A plan that was no better than the ones that they were "rejecting" before.

They do the same thing now, and if you do not admit it you are just trying to hide behind your finger.

Ok, let's assume this is true. Let's assume that Turkey didn't do anything and the RoC exercised its veto right. Then what? What will be the next step in the peace process? Where do you think this will lead us?

I don't think the veto will happen (not by Cyprus). if a decision is taken then this will be one that will be giving the date to Turkey, along with several terms and conditions that will ensure that this process can end whenever the EU decides to do so.

if we veto Turkey, it will lead as nowhere. If we don't veto Turkey it will lead us nowhere again. If Turkey doesn't do any compromises now that we got some pressure on them, then they will never do them.
The veto will just give them time to rethink about it. Maybe they will decide that they "bill" is to high and they would be more willing to do some compromises.